The Minimalist Approach to Social Media Strategy

On the last episode of the podcast (episode 146) we talked about quitting Social Media and growing it without those platforms.

Well, today, we take the Digital Minimalist approach. It’s the approach I’m adhering to, as I’m still present on LinkedIn and really focusing my time and efforts on that one platform.

I invited Cassie Widders, who is a social media strategist who works with personal brands and service-based business owners to simplify their social media to talk to us about creating a strategy with focus and minimalism.

Cassie is known for her work on digital minimalism, social media and its effects on our wellbeing, and in making social media strategies more sustainable for personal brands and business owners.

"I truly believe that you can be present on social media and in real life" – @sarahsantacroce #humanemarketing Click To Tweet

In this episode, you’ll learn about the minimalist approach to social media strategy as well as…

  • The digital minimalism framework and what it means
  • How we can be both present on Social Media, but also be a minimalist
  • What our definition of success has to do with it
  • Cassie’s explanation of a seasonal business
  • How such a minimalist strategy on the Socials could look like
  • And so much more

Cassie’s Resources

Cassie’s Website

Cassie’s Podcast: The Social Self Podcast

Sarah’s Episode on Cassie’s Podcast

Connect with Cassie on:

LinkedIn

Instagram

Sarah’s Resources

Watch this episode on Youtube

(FREE) Sarah’s One Page Marketing Plan

(FREE) Sarah Suggests Newsletter

(FREE) The Humane Business Manifesto

(FREE) Gentle Confidence Mini-Course

Marketing Like We’re Human – Sarah’s book

The Humane Marketing Circle

Authentic & Fair Pricing Mini-Course

Podcast Show Notes

We use Descript to edit our episodes and it’s fantastic!

Email Sarah at sarah@sarahsantacroce.com

Thanks for listening!

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Warmly,

Sarah

Imperfect Transcript of the show

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Sarah: Hi, Cassie. So good to speak to you today. 

Cassie: Hey, thanks so much for having me. Yeah. [00:07:00] I’m 

Sarah: so excited to have this conversation. I recently, I’ve had a lot of these swaps, you know, where I’m on a podcast and then I have we exchange and, and you are now on mine and it’s, it’s just such a way, great way of doing things, because once you feel like, okay, I found somebody that I’m really aligned with, why not, you know, help each other out.

And, and instead of accepting one of. Pitches and you’re like, eh, it doesn’t feel, really feel like a 

Cassie: good fit so, um, yeah, 

Sarah: super excited to, to have you here. And of course we’ll link to the interview, the episode on your podcast, as well. So excited to have you here and talk about social media.

, and it’s funny, cuz I’m just preparing, , an Encore of a workshop, called grow your business without social media. And so thanks for 

Cassie: seeing that yeah. So of course, this is 

Sarah: great to have you here, to talk about. Social media, but I think a very [00:08:00] different approach to social media, right? So you call yourself also a digital minimalist.

So we’re definitely gonna dive into that, but maybe first, tell us a little bit how you are different compared to, you know, the traditional social media strategist. 

Cassie: Yeah. I think the biggest difference is I help people be on social media, less . And I think as a social media strategist, people are always a bit confused about that.

But what I kind of like about my work is I understand the good and the bad from having worked in it. I’ve been in this industry for over eight years, working on strategies for businesses. I feel that there is so much potential with technology and social media, but I obviously understand the harm. So I come at it by saying, okay, if, if I know the intricacies of strategies for businesses, for social media, how can I help you do it in a way that works for you and your wellbeing as well?

Cuz [00:09:00] I’ve previously when I was in this industry before I. Help people be on social media less. I was very much in the field of, okay. I know how to make it a successful social media strategy. Mm-hmm , here’s the formula let’s go or let’s do it. And I was just seeing a lot of my clients and, and business friends and everything.

Just get really overwhelmed with that and burnt out and. You know, it’s a lot, it’s a lot of content, a lot of rules of, you know, show up, be consistent, you know, all these kind of things. And, , yeah, now I help people still have a successful business, but. In a way that works for them. So I kind of think of myself, like on a mission to help people, business owners or personal brands or founders be more intentional with their time online.

 Because I truly, truly, truly, truly believe that you can be present on social media and in real life, like that’s kind of a mantra that I do kind of live by. , so yeah, so I create social media strategies, [00:10:00] but I also Inc. Digital wellbeing into that. So we get results, but you’re also intentional with your time online and you have a healthier relationship with your phone as.

Mm. Yeah. 

Sarah: I love that. And so needed. I think, , I, I, I think we’re reaching some kind of tipping point. That’s why I, or that’s what I noticed with putting out this podcast. And that’s why I’m, I’m sorry to the workshop, uh, to grow your business without social media. And that’s why I’m doing a. An Encore because there was a lot of interest.

People are like, we’re tired of constantly having to create content, constantly being there com commenting and replying to messages and things like that. So I, I think we’re reaching this tipping point wherever we’re like, okay. Yeah. It’s here to stay. We got somehow learn how to, you know, do business with.

Maybe I’m still putting a, maybe next to that, because maybe you can grow a business without it. , but for those who are actually like, okay, I [00:11:00] like it, you know, it’s not like I don’t like it. But in a healthy way. And, and I, I love that you’re offering that to your clients. You also talk about, digital minimalism on your, on your website and.

That you kind of build the, the social media strategy on the basis of these principles of digital minimalism. So tell us a bit more about it. , I, I haven’t in a while, but I’ve been listening in the past to the digital minimalist. Podcast or can I remember two guys in the us who were like, they called themselves the, the minimalists, I think.

Yeah. And, you know, who I’m talking about and, and yeah, definitely fascinated by, by that movement. Can’t say that I’m following it. Exactly. But I do like the idea and one of my favorite business books is essentialism, which is kind of similar, you know, it’s like, you just do the things that.

Essential. So tell us more about these principles of [00:12:00] digital minimalism. 

Cassie: Yeah. It’s kind of the same thing as that, you know, like, so I first came across this a few years ago when I read the book digital minimalism by Cal port. And, , it’s a fantastic book and I highly, highly recommend it. But what I got frustrated with is.

Cal Newport is a very accomplished, amazing academic, but he’s also someone who’s never had a social media platform in his life. He goes on them occasionally for research, but as a user, he’s never had one. And so the book, the philosophy behind it is fantastic. You know, , I’ve got a quote, which I’ll, , say, which is from.

The book itself or what Cal defines as digital minimalism, which is a philosophy of technology usage in which you focus your online time on a small number of selected and optimized activities that strongly support the things you value and then happily miss out and everything else mm-hmm . And you know, that sounds great.

I know for [00:13:00] you. And I were like, yes, that sounds really good. Mm-hmm but what was quite frustrating was. It kind of leaves out the benefits of technology and social media and what it can do, whether that is connection, community, , support, creativity, all the things that you are able to do, whether it’s make a living express yourself, find like-minded people.

and it was very much a, okay. Have a digital detox, change the notifications on your phone, all absolutely valid and essential things to protect your wellbeing. Of course. But I was like, well, where does this leave business owners? You know, we can’t just, well, I’m gonna get rid of. Instagram for six months. I mean, you can, but on the whole, when you’re looking at an actual practical framework to market your business, it, it didn’t really apply.

It was more for people who are not running the business. So. With that I was like, right. Okay. There must be something that I can learn from this philosophy, [00:14:00] take things out of it and adapt it for businesses. And that’s what I’ve been working on for the last few years. So my work helps you do exactly what the definition is, you know, which is to use technology, to support the things you value and miss out on everything else.

So I help businesses be intentional with their time online. Streamline and simplify their social media strategy so that it just focuses on the small number of activities that essentially give them the best return on their investment. Mm-hmm so the whole goal is to improve their business and their wellbeing.

So we essentially are minimalists for their marketing. That that’s what I do is help them declutter that prioritize streamline and focus, but they have. There are processes they have to do in order to accept. That’s what they’re gonna miss out on, because that is the big thing of like, how are we going to prioritize?

How are we going to determine what to take out, what to focus [00:15:00] on? And I, the way that I work, that the kind of framework that I work on is we merge your business goals, your lifestyle goals and your social media goals. And we put all them together because I, what I found is that a sustainable social media strategy.

You can’t have one, if it goes against your lifestyle and your enjoyment of things. Cause you know, the one biggest concern people have is now I can’t be consistent or, oh, I have to show up today. Or, and then you realize I haven’t posted in a while and I’m thinking, okay, if these are the common issues people are having, what is the friction there?

Why, why is there a barrier? And that is because it’s not in line. With their enjoyment, their skills, their strength, their lifestyle goals. So I’m gonna pause you there, 

Sarah: Kathy. Cause I wanna go into that, go for it. But I also wanna just kind of go back to, , Cal Newport and, and his work and kind of this, Yeah, the theory of, you know, digital MI minimalism and, and [00:16:00] then actually the practicality, if you’re starting out as a small business owner right now, it always kind of, , bothers me a little bit is when these accomplished people say, oh, you know, I have a business and I don’t use social media.

I don’t even check my email. They have a big team who, you know, sometimes even the team is on social media. , and so they manage it for them or maybe, okay. They’re not at all on social media, but they, , have, they have such, of fame that they can be on these big podcasts. And, you know, they have a book who’s selling thousands of copies, things like that.

And so it’s. To me sounds kind of phony when they’re saying, oh, I don’t need, you know, please don’t use social media. You’re like, yeah. But how did you get to that point? You know, you nowadays, it it’s a good tool to help you grow to a certain, , level in, in business. , just curious what, 

Cassie: what you [00:17:00] think about that.

I’m like a hundred percent on the same page and I’ve listened to so many of these, like. Very intriguing podcast titles of like quit social media, or you don’t need social media. And there’s always someone who’s got three books under their belts or, you know, such a huge platform already where yeah, they are going on the biggest podcast ever, and even being on TV.

And they’ve got such a profile or they’re rising for the New York times and it’s like, Fantastic. But you, I can’t relate to you like you it’s aspirational. Absolutely. But it’s not practical. So I’m a hundred percent. Yeah. Feel exactly the same with that. And that’s, that’s the reality, isn’t it? Those people I have yet to meet people who have not.

Who are not at that stage who say that you don’t need social media at all? Mm-hmm yeah. 

Sarah: I would love for you to join the workshop because the, the co-host that I’m doing that with , is. with guy who’s who’s in, , the UK and she actually [00:18:00] says, no, I built my business without social media. And so I feel like, okay, you know, it’s great to bring someone on like that.

Who’s like, no, there is. And, and certainly enough, you know, there’s. Been a time where we didn’t have social media and I I’m sure people build businesses all the time, but I agree with you now that we’re in this age and all these tools exist, , why not learn to use them in a, in a healthy way. Right. So let’s go back to what you were talking about, the lifestyle, the goals.

And then when I kind of heard you say is like, well, what we first need to work on is your definition of success, right? Because that’s another thing we are being fed on social media as well. And maybe from other people that we listen to is like, well, we have to have a certain business. , and so maybe it’s time to actually, , look at that.

So tell us how you work with, , your clients on, on that definition of. 

Cassie: Yeah, that [00:19:00] that bit is always the first piece of work. Because if, if our goal is to remove things, as we are building a strategy, and to completely minimize what we’re working on, you need to know what you’re working towards. And often I’ve had.

Situations in the past where people have ideas of what their lifestyle wants to be, what their business wants to be and what they wanna do on social media. And they don’t align. , I remember one of the, the catalysts for me changing this was, I was working with a lady who she wanted community. She was all about community and I was like, fantastic goal.

Okay. Right. And we dug into deeper as to what that man did everything, but essentially she’s like, I just wanna thrive in community. So she’s like talking about Facebook groups, talking about the interactions she was gonna have and all these. and then we looked at what her business goal was and what her lifestyle goal was.

And when I [00:20:00] talk about lifestyle goals, I’m talking about that may be financial. It might be time. It might be where you want to be spending your energy. There are different things. And this woman in particular, she really wanted to have a cutoff point when she was on offline, when she was online, so that she was present for her kids’ bathtime and meal times was with her family.

She’s like, I don’t want it to be. This thing where I’m getting notifications in the evening, where I’m checking my phone, where I’m answering things, you know, I want to be very present for my kids and for my partner. I was like, fantastic. And then we dug into, okay, but if you want this community, what does that look like?

In reality? Like what are the hours that are gonna be dedicated to this? And she wasn’t in a position to outsource this and you cannot also argue that that’s probably not the most authentic thing to do as well. , so she was in a position where she realized, okay, I’m gonna have to [00:21:00] dedicate so much time to building.

Idea of a community that I wanted, and that is not in line with my lifestyle goals. So what would’ve happened had we pursued, had I ignored the lifestyle goals and just gone on to her social media goals. It, would’ve got to a point where she would not have continued to build that community because she, she wanted, , screen free time in the evening or.

Even worse. She would’ve round continued to build this community and sacrificed that time of being present with her family. And either one of them is not good, you know, it’s not sustainable and it doesn’t make you fulfilled and happy because it’s at odds with your lifestyle goals. And because social media is never.

It’s 24 7 and it doesn’t sleep. And because it’s on your phone and it’s all encompassing like these are, I, I just can’t see how you can’t merge the two, because it does become part of your life. Especially as personal brands, we are sharing our lives, our thoughts, we are putting ourself out there in a very visible way.

So [00:22:00] it needs to get, be in line with what your definition of success is, whether and that merges your lifestyle goals, your business goals and your social media goals. So, what did you 

Sarah: end up doing with this lady who, you know, wanted both? She’s like, I want the community, but I also want the cutoff point.

What, what was. 

Cassie: I did to her. I did to her what I do to everyone. Like my, the way I see my work is my job is not to tell you, okay, this is what you should do. My job is to inform you of, okay, this is your choice. If you were to build your. Definition of community as it is right now. Cuz we did end up changing what her definition of community was.

But initially I was like, if you want this version of your community, then you will have to work X amount of hours in order to see that come to light for the next, however many months that would be, or you could not have. And you would have your time at home and you would [00:23:00] build this version of a community.

And then that is, that is my job because then it’s up to the individual to choose what they want, because everything, I, I really get frustrated when it’s a. The marketers say that there’s, you know, you can have it all. I was like, I just don’t think that’s very realistic. You know, there’s we only have so many hours in a day, so many skills that we have, and of course we need to lean into them, but we need to prioritize.

We need to compromise. We need to understand what is more important to me and how do I get there? Now, what we did end up with this lady is we changed what that community looked like. It wasn’t. Full force. I wanna grow it at, to in this amount of months, it was a slow and steady build with less fewer platforms.

So it could have been so much more quicker, but we just adjusted what that, , goal was to make it fit into her lifestyle, which gave her some breathing space. I love 

Sarah: that. I love that you picked that [00:24:00] story. We could have, cuz it could be me. It could be my story. Right? , the, the humane marketing circle is the community that I know.

That’s my thing that I wanna grow. And yet, , yeah, I, I don’t want to spend hours and hours. And I also know that, you know, the, this kind of community, , is not the one where you. People just join because I’m constantly PO posting quotes on Facebook. So I had to also think about that as like, okay, this is gonna be a slower growing community, but it’s gonna be fine because it’s the thing that I’m gonna do for the next 10 years.

And, and so it really coming it’s scary in a way, right. Coming close to that because all, all you hear everywhere. It’s. Scale fast and you know, how can you get a hundred members in three months and, and all, and so sitting there and going, okay, here’s what I want, my lifestyle goals. And, and that, that, that, that [00:25:00] then means that you have to kind of revisit your.

Idea of success for your business goal. That’s kind of like, yeah. It’s, it’s not easy. And I, I can see the benefit of having a partner like you to talk through this and not be alone and go, why isn’t this thing growing? Do I have to do more? And it’s a constant battle of do I put in more hours? Mm-hmm but N would you also agree that it’s not necessarily because you put in more hours on social media?

That you are gonna get more members or more sales or clients or something. 

Cassie: Absolutely. Yeah. It’s not just the hours. It’s the energy as well. And, how that drains you. So yeah, part of my work as well goes into time, energy boundaries, skills, strengths, all of these things, because the foundation of what I do is return on investment and the investment is your time and energy.

and if you are putting something in to something that really energizes [00:26:00] you, that makes brings you joy, that you’re you’re good at. And you really enjoy. Then that is gonna be a smaller investment with a greater return. But if you are putting your energy and time into something, you’re maybe your skills aren’t aligned to and you don’t really enjoy it, that’s gonna be such a labor intensive investments are put in, and you’re probably not going to see the result that you would like.

As opposed when you’re jumping into something with enthusiasm. So it’s all about balancing that return on investment. Yeah. 

Sarah: I love that. On your site, you also say that you have a seasonal business and you know, we’re in the middle of summer. And I also kind of work around the seasons and I summer is my favorite season.

So I really make sure that I have lots of time off you’re. One week away from a big move as well. So, , does that also play into how you, , kind of built your business around the seasons and maybe also the location? 

Cassie: Yeah. Yeah. [00:27:00] We’re moving to bonier in a week, which is crazy. Yeah, so there’s, I built my seasonal business originally because I worked with a coach, And we, she helped me craft this because I found that my, my husband’s a teacher and he would have these lovely long summers off.

And summer’s also my favorite season and you know, the sun shining and you’re locked in your dark office and you’re like, oh my gosh. , so he would come in and I’d be like, Sunny out. You wanna come out and, you know, I’ve got flexibility. I’ve got all this, cuz I run my own business, but the reality is I still need to work.

Right. So I always was had this like friction of either saying no to him or saying yes. And what I ended up doing is okay, I’ve got immense privilege for being able to take that time off, but I would then work 12, 14 hour days afterwards to make up for. And it just was just very all over the place. You know, sometimes I’d be out having a great time.

Then next day I’d be doing 12 hours. So, , essentially set up the seasonal business to, I closed my coaching program to new clients over the summer [00:28:00] because I found that out of all my services, my six months and three month coaching programs are very. Energy intensive. , as ever anyone knows who works with one-to-one clients on a long-term basis, you know, it’s, you give a lot to them and you just, you are there for them throughout the whole time and while existing clients.

And I have, , a relationship and they know how things work and we’re, we’re on a momentum here and it’s, it’s fine. I found new clients were very, It was a lot of input straight away in order to get them set up and be there for them and get them to fully understand how I work, how our systems work and get the ball rolling.

So I thought, well, that is actually the, probably the biggest piece of work that I do that is very energy draining. So if I could remove that, I am. Doing a lot less work. That’s some over the summer. And then the coaching clients I do have, you know, they won’t all carry on throughout the whole summer. Some contracts might end, you know, [00:29:00] in July or June or something.

And then I’d, I wouldn’t take any more on, so I. Now I just do my, , VIP days or intensive, when I feel like it, when I, well, or when I need to pay the bills or , or when I feel like I want to, , want to do more work and I have the time and that has allowed more, a lot more flexibility in the summer. So yeah, that’s my seasonal business.

And. Obviously, it’s a blessing now as I’m moving, cuz , yeah, I got a lot, lot to do. So , it’s given me the space. What 

Sarah: about your social media? Do you maintain the presence over the summer? Because, I’m I chose basically to be present on LinkedIn and let go of all the other platforms. , and yet I still, and I even, you know, have, , 12 years of, , a LinkedIn consulting business behind me.

, but I still. Right now notice since I have shifted my approach to social media, I feel like this kind. Guilt, or almost a bit of shame when I look at the reach of my [00:30:00] posts, because obviously if you’re not posting as often, , as you know, maybe before then the problem is as you know, the algorithms are like, you know, we can kind of forget about her and she’s not there anymore.

So how, yeah. How do you deal with the algorithms? Really? I think that’s 

Cassie: the. Question. Yeah. I have the same thing as you, thoughts of you with that, you know, and then again, it kind of what I did with that was again, go back to my definition of success and priorities and okay. My priority this summer is my, my lifestyle.

 And again, I know that’s a huge privilege, but that’s what I, , chosen to prioritize. So. When I do look at the posts, I do posts it and it, they’re not as good as previously. Of course I feel the same. It does good little sting in there. And you’re like, oh, and you know, because you know that God, I know how to fix this.

That’s I have to be like, no, this is not a priority right now. And I think as long as I keep that alignment for my definition of success, they kind [00:31:00] of helps me sometimes . But in terms of that, what I do is I do try to, , prerecord podcasts. Mm-hmm therefore. I know that they’re gonna come out throughout the summer and that means that’s work that’s already done, and I’m still gonna be visible and increase my brand awareness throughout the summer when I’m not as present.

And for my own contents, I’ve massively scaled it down. The only thing that does not change is my own podcast. , and that’s because it’s, well, I, I enjoy it, but also it’s still quite new. So I’m still, , Getting that quite established, but everything else in terms of posting I’ve scaled it right back. I will normally post once or twice a week.

, and one of them is a podcast episode. , so in terms of original content, it might be once a week or it might not be. And I just go that way and I’m a firm believer. Working towards seasons and cycles when it comes to social media strategy. , I’ve got many clients who they really, they may want a, [00:32:00] give me a schedule, like what?

And I want to stick to that. That makes me feel calm. That makes me feel in control, but it’s very, very unlikely that very, not very often that I come across a client that will keep that schedule forever. Because what happens is life happens and people, their moods change, whether that’s, you know, for, for different reasons or anything, life happening or whatever, and their moods change.

And I really encourage people to lean into that. You know, if you feel that you wanna break, take a break, or if you feel that you’ve got more energy now, and you’re feeling really creative. Up that ramp that up. If you feel life’s very overwhelming and you wanna scale it back, scale it back. And I’m a big advocate for scaling back during the summer because people, your users, your audience have scaled back either because they’re juggling kids now or in and work, or they’re being pulled towards the out being outdoors versus here.

Everyone’s like. Being pulled in different directions in the summer. [00:33:00] I feel so if, and the data also shows that people are less, engaged when the sun is shining. So I’m thinking take that. Why not use it as an opportunity and take that time to scale back for your own for yourself as well? Yeah, so that’s kind of how I work in seasons with my own marketing.

Sarah: Mm. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. The other thing you kind of talked about it is this whole idea of content creation, right? That a lot of social media strategists 

Cassie: talk about, 

Sarah: repurposing and, you know, you have to have your content calendar, , yeah. This whole idea of. Having a month’s worth of content ahead of time.

, I think we hear that message a lot. Is that also what you are suggesting to your clients? I heard you say, okay. Scale it down in the summer, but what about the rest of the year is, is that still the message that we, , that we need to apply in, in 

Cassie: social media? Yeah. So honestly, , it is dependent completely on [00:34:00] individual.

I have some clients that want to feel more in control of it and I would on the whole. I would recommend planning at least a fortnight in advance, just because you, you, you do wanna move your clients through a journey like throughout this, the different seasons of your marketing calendar, you will have things that you want to promote.

You will have times when, , yeah, you have a workshop going on or you want to promote this one to one service or whatever that is. Therefore of course your, the strategy behind that needs to align with that goal. And by. Having something in advance. You’re not, you’re not able to take a step back and look at that holistically and go, am I actually moving people down that journey?

So of course I would always ad advise that. But I think the thing that I always come back to as well is if you don’t enjoy this, if you’re not feeling joy and passion for what you’re creating, you’re not going to do it. Therefore, if, if I get you. [00:35:00] Take suck the life out of it as you will, then you’re not gonna do it.

I’d rather you do something than do nothing. So if it feels, if you feel like that is becoming draining for you, that’s prescriptive. , this is the rules. This is how you do it. The guidelines of what you should be doing. Throw that out the window, just for three, six weeks, whatever that means and lean into joy, because that is how you’re going to be consistent.

Consistency doesn’t mean, you know, having it doesn’t mean posting on Tuesdays and Thursdays and Fridays every week. It consistency means. Just maintaining a visible presence and that can fluctuate. But as long as you’re maintaining a presence online, you are being consistent. And sometimes that may mean that you are posting once a week.

Sometimes that means you are posting four times a week or whatever that is, but I really do believe that if you take away the joy, then you’re not going to post at all. And that’s even more damaging to [00:36:00] your, , strategy long. Yeah. I’m so glad 

Sarah: you, you mentioned that because I, I did notice myself, like during this summer, Most of the time I was looking at my LinkedIn feed and I’m like, I don’t even wanna talk business in the summer.

I’m like, can I just talk about the different flavors of ice cream and , and I guess I could have posted that, but I’m like, no, I’m just, I just wanna share that with my family and not post that on, on LinkedIn or, or any other platform. And so, so yeah, it it’s really also the moods change, right? It’s like, it’s these fluctuations where it’s like, no, I’m not in.

Business is smooth right now. So yeah. I’m so glad you’re, you’re , helping your clients respect that and say, yeah, it has to be joyful because otherwise, yeah, you’re not doing it at all. , I have my, my, , virtual assistant Mara, , always help me with, posting something personal, , on Mondays, cuz it.

Something that [00:37:00] I, as a, you know, introvert, I’m like, it just doesn’t come natural to me, but once I post it and, you know, take a picture or something, then I actually enjoy the interactions. And so I need that kind of extra, , reminder. She just kind of gives me this gentle nudge and I’m like, okay. Yeah.

And, and then sometimes I don’t, sometimes I’m like, I really don’t feel like it. just, yeah. 

Cassie: And that’s okay. That’s totally okay. And if that, if you are leaning into that’s how you’re able to maintain visibility, right. Because you have lean into that a bit more. Yeah. 

Sarah: Well, this has been really great. Any.

First steps for people who kind of want to get started on this road of digital minimalism with, with their social media, what would you 

Cassie: recommend? They do? I’d really recommend reading the book by Cal Newports. Digital minimalism, , like I said, it’s not really created for businesses, but the philosophy behind it is really interesting.

 And then. If you are just starting out, like [00:38:00] the big question is always, you know, how can I remove anything? That’s not supporting my definition of success. And in this context, we’re talking about technology specifically social media, but that can feel like a very big question, like, gosh, okay, where do I start?

 To me, I would just start small, you know, so what platforms are not giving you that return on investment? And again, we’re talking as the investment of energy and time, and the return is, you know, the goals. Are you reaching those goals for what you’re putting in? Now you either, if you feel like, no, it’s not.

And let’s use LinkedIn as an example, you know, you’re putting all this time and energy into it. You’re not seeing the return. Of course you can remove it. And that is something that you should trial and maybe try it for six weeks, see how it goes. Try it for another six weeks, see how it goes. And then you can get a clearer picture.

Is this really damaging my business or is it not? And I can assure you that six weeks is not going to, completely tarnish your business. So it’s totally fine to experiment with that, but also if you [00:39:00] feel like, okay, I dunno if I’m ready for that big step of removing a platform. Okay, can you change the way that you create content?

So if you find that, you know, writing is a big drain, it’s not your skillset. It’s not something that you enjoy. So therefore writing articles for LinkedIn is becoming really heavy for you. Could you change it and go, I really enjoy conversations. I might do a live series or a video series, and that is easier for me to create.

It’s more joyful and monitor the return on that. And it’s just about. Balancing what you’re putting in and what you’re getting out. And it doesn’t always have to mean taking something away. It’s just changing it to a way, something that is easier and less of an investment for you. Mm-hmm . Yeah. I 

Sarah: love that.

And, and, and so good that you call it experiments because I think that’s exactly what it is. It’s like, well, try it. You know, I, I did that with my podcast. [00:40:00] I, you know, everybody says you have to have at least one episode per, per week. And it, I just noticed it became this factory of, you know, creating podcasts.

And then I started accepting guests that I probably didn’t align with a hundred percent. And so I’m like, no, I need to give myself permission to just slow it down and only do two podcasts per month. And I did that. And then, you know, Don’t usually look at the numbers, but I thought, okay, it’s been six months.

Let me look at the numbers. The numbers didn’t change. Like, wow, the downloads didn’t change. And I was like, well, there you go. You know, it was an experiment and it worked and, and I bet you that, , You know, the same thing could happen on one of the social media platforms. If you just say, let me experiment and pause this one and see, you know, because in the end, the reason you’re doing it for is for income, right?

That’s in the end, what we’re trying to measure here. And, and [00:41:00] if that doesn’t change anything, then, then. And yes, I agree. It’s always, you know, take something off first, but then that frees up energy so that you can actually experiment with something else that gives you more joy. 

Cassie: Understand. Yeah. About you changing up your podcast schedule, you made it sustainable because probably would’ve happened.

If you didn’t change that schedule. You may have stopped doing it altogether. Yeah. And then that’s part of it. Mm-hmm yeah. You’ve lost your podcast, but by changing it and then going, you know what, I’m gonna lean into what feels better to me, I’ve managed to keep it going and that. Is the win because you are maintaining another platform that you enjoy and is bringing your return.

So it’s, I feel like a lot of people do feel that paralysis of, you know, it’s like the sun cost fallacy. Right. You know, I’ve put so much into it. I don’t wanna change it, but actually you have to think as a sustainability of it and by changing it, you will have more time to do it better. [00:42:00] And, um, yeah, really see the return.

Yeah. 

Sarah: This is so good. 

Cassie: Thank you so much, Cassie. Oh, thank you for having me. You tell people, 

Sarah: uh, where they can find you and, and, , yeah. How to connect with you. 

Cassie: Yeah. So my website is Cassie widows dot code UK. And you find me on LinkedIn, Cassie widows and, , Instagram the same as well. Yeah, and I have the podcast called the social self podcast where I had Sarah on and we talk about how to be more intentional with your time online.

, but yeah. Thank you so much, Sarah. It’s been a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you for having me. 

Sarah: Yeah, thank you. I have one last question that I ask all my guests and that is what are you grateful for today or this week? An important week just before you move. 

Cassie: Yeah, I was thinking about this. , so I think I’m grateful for.

Choice, like the privilege of choice. That is something I really do live by because it’s not about, for me personally, it’s not [00:43:00] freedom or flexibility or anything. It’s the choice to have that, the choice to work, the choice to, , work less the choice to move the choice and I’m moving to Borneo. And the, yeah, that’s what I’m most grateful for is that I have choice.

Mm, 

Sarah: wonderful. Yeah. I like choice too. I think we all do and, and choosing to have you on the podcast versus, you know, someone who’s pitching me about how they built their six figure business in three weeks. so, yeah, it would’ve, 

Cassie: I think it would’ve hit the wrong note with you. Yeah. yeah. 

Sarah: Well, stay in touch.

Okay. Thank 

Cassie: you so much for being here. Thank you, Sarah. It’s been a pleasure. Really appreciate it.

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Your contact information is safe, and will not be used in ways
other than stated on this page.