Limiting Beliefs and Pricing

In today’s episode, we delve into the vital “P of Pricing” as we sit down with Patty Block – a business advisor, pricing expert, author, and empowering speaker.

In our conversation, we explore the intriguing relationship between broken cookies and our limiting beliefs with pricing, the challenge of being affordable for everyone while avoiding burnout, and effective techniques to communicate the true value of our services before raising prices. We also dive into strategies for determining fair pricing, tackling the “Good Girl’s Dilemma,” and letting go of patterns that don’t serve us.

Get ready to be inspired!

"So I would say if you're just starting out, take advantage of the shortcuts that are available to you." – Patty Block @sarahsantacroce #humanemarketing Share on X

In this episode Patty and I discuss about:

  • The relationship between broken cookies and our limiting beliefs with pricing
  • The challenge of wanting to be affordable for everyone – and burning out while doing so
  • Effective techniques to communicate our value and why we need to do that before raising our prices
  • How to get started when you’re determining your prices
  • and much more

Patty’s Resources

Patty’s Book – Your Hidden Advantage

Patty’s Website

Find Patty on LinkedIn

Find Tom on Twitter

Sarah’s Resources

(FREE) Sarah’s One Page Marketing Plan

(FREE) The Humane Business Manifesto

(FREE) Gentle Confidence Mini-Course

Marketing Like We’re Human – Sarah’s book

The Humane Marketing Circle

Authentic & Fair Pricing Mini-Course

Podcast Show Notes

We use Descript to edit our episodes and it’s fantastic!

Email Sarah at sarah@sarahsantacroce.com

Thanks for listening!

After you listen, check out Humane Business Manifesto, an invitation to belong to a movement of people who do business the humane and gentle way and disrupt the current marketing paradigm. You can download it for free at this page. There’s no opt-in. Just an instant download.

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Warmly,

Sarah

Imperfect Transcript of the show

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169 transcript

[00:00:00] Sarah: Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today’s conscious customers because it’s humane, ethical, and non pushy.

[00:00:23] I’m Sarah Zanacroce, your hippie turned business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama bear of the humane marketing circle and renegade author of marketing like we’re human and selling like we’re human. If after listening to the show for a while, you’re ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what Works and what doesn’t work in business.

[00:00:54] Then we’d love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you’re picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way.

[00:01:16] We share with transparency and vulnerability. What works for us. And what doesn’t work, so that you can figure out what works for you, instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane. marketing forward slash circle. And if you prefer one on one support from me, my Humane Business Coaching could be just what you need.

[00:01:40] Whether it’s for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book, I’d love to share my brain and my heart with you, together with my almost 50… Years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my Mama Bear qualities as my one-on-one client.

[00:02:05] You can find out more at humane.marketing/coaching. And finally, if you are a Marketing Impact pioneer and would like to bring Humane Marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website at Humane.

[00:02:29] Hello, welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast. I’m so delighted that you’re here. I’m back in Switzerland after three weeks of really, really hot weather in Sicily. And I’m recording this and it’s raining outside and there’s a thunderstorm. So it’s quite refreshing. I’m speaking today with Patti Block.

[00:02:53] And before I tell you a bit more about Patti. I’d like to remind you that I’m currently talking to potential [00:03:00] participants of the Marketing Like We’re Human, also known as the Client Resonator Program. This is my flagship three month program, closely aligned with my podcast, and based on the same framework, the seven Ps of humane marketing.

[00:03:16] The program involves a deep exploration of these seven P’s to help you uncover your true identity and passion and really enabling you to infuse more of you, more of your authentic self into your marketing. Essentially it’s about marketing from within. While the outcome is the resonance with your ideal clients, the program goes way beyond just marketing.

[00:03:44] It serves as the foundation for your life’s work. We begin by focusing on the inner aspects, such as passion and personal power, and then move to the outer elements, people, product, pricing, promotion, and partnership with [00:04:00] others. The program takes place in an intimate group setting. Ensuring a deep and transformative experience, resulting then in the business that truly aligns with your values.

[00:04:13] The program is a hybrid model, so consisting of 20 to 30 minute video to watch each week. Uh, these are based on my teachings, but also on my own experience that I share with vulnerability. Cause I feel like if I show up with vulnerability, then that’s kind of sets the stage for our group conversations.

[00:04:35] And that’s why these group conversations are so in depth and, uh, vulnerable and transformative. So who’s the program for? It’s for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs with varying levels of business experience. So whether you have one year, five years or. Even 10 years under your belt, it’s never too late to create a solid foundation for your business [00:05:00] and more importantly, to create your life’s work.

[00:05:02] So by doing so, you’ll be able to market authentically as the person you truly are. If you’re interested in learning more or have already visited the page, but need to go back, I invite you to go to humane. marketing forward slash program, where you’ll find different testimonials and detailed case studies from past participants.

[00:05:25] If you think that this program might be your right next step and a good fit for you and your business, let’s talk. You can book a call with me by going to humane. marketing forward slash program and there you’ll find a button to book a call or you can send me an email if you’re on my email list. Also, what I forgot to mention until July 31st, I have an early bird.

[00:05:49] Discount of 200 off. So please do mention that to me. And I will of course, apply it as long as you book our [00:06:00] call before July 31st. It’s okay if we speak after, but at least have it booked before July 31st and mentioned the discount code. There’s no code just mentioned the early bird. Thank you so much.

[00:06:14] Okay. Back to the P of pricing and today’s episode, Patty Block is a business advisor, pricing expert, author, and speaker. She works exclusively with women business owner experts to strategically fine tune their operations, attract right fit clients, and boost their revenue. She firmly believes business success and wealth in the hands of women elevates society as a whole.

[00:06:42] And I agree, but not just women. There’s There’s good guys out there as well in her book, your hidden advantage, unlock the power to attract the right fit clients and boost your revenue. Patty reveals a new perspective and proven practical solutions, guiding women to [00:07:00] unleash their. Inner power to run their business with more confidence, profit, and joy.

[00:07:05] In this episode with Patty, we discussed the relationship between broken cookies and our limiting beliefs with pricing. You’re going to have to listen to find out about the broken cookies, the challenge of wanting to be affordable for everyone and burning out while doing so. Effective techniques to communicate our value and why we need to do that before raising our prices.

[00:07:32] How to get started when you’re determining your prices and so much more. So let’s listen to this conversation about pricing with Patti Block. Hi, Patti. I’m so looking forward to our conversation today about pricing. Welcome to the Humane Marketing Show.

[00:07:50] Patty: Thank you. And thank you for inviting me.

[00:07:52] Sarah: Yeah, I’m so delighted.

[00:07:54] I’m, I want to give a shout out to Sophie Leshner, who’s, uh, introduced us and, and [00:08:00] I couldn’t be more happy with, um, you know, having this introduction because I have to admit, like in terms of pricing, um, especially aligned with our values and humane marketing, it’s not always. Easy to find the right experts, but when I came across your work, I’m like, oh, yes, definitely very much aligned.

[00:08:22] So, um, yeah, super delighted to have you here. I think I want to start off with, uh, one of the stories you tell on your website. And I think I heard you talk about it on another podcast as well. And it has to do with cookies. So it’s not the cookie cutter, uh, story, uh, you know, the cookie cutter recipes that we talk about a lot in the humane marketing and I like follow everybody else’s recipe for success, but it also has to do with cookies.

[00:08:55] So why don’t you start us off there, Patty?

[00:08:59] Patty: Sir, [00:09:00] when I was growing up, my mom made these fabulous cookies. The whole house smelled good, it was warm, the cookies were gooey, and all my life I watched my mom eat the broken cookies. But it wasn’t until I was a teenager that I even thought to ask her, why do you only eat the broken cookies?

[00:09:19] Do they taste better? And she laughed and said no I eat the broken cookies so you can have the whole ones And that memory came rushing back to me several years ago when I was struggling to put words Around a really pervasive pattern that I had seen in the decades that i’ve worked with women business owners that That’s what we’re doing as women and that image of my mom eating the broken cookies popped in my head I realized that we are Watching our role models are moms and our grandmothers and they brought that spirit of self sacrifice to everything they did [00:10:00] so we’re following that and we’re bringing that into our businesses and that’s what I call the broken cookie effect when we undervalue ourselves we underprice our services and then we over deliver so we struggle to be profitable we Really have a lot of limiting behaviors because I believe everything in your business flows from your pricing, when you can hire, who you can hire, the technology that you bring into your company, all of the things that you spend money on, you can’t do that.

[00:10:36] And you don’t have those choices unless your pricing is appropriate and your company is profitable. And so, What I’ve seen is that everyone around us, our clients, our staff, our families, everybody gets the whole cookie and we live on crumbs.

[00:10:54] Sarah: Yeah, that’s quite the story. And it’s, I could think of at least three or four [00:11:00] women, uh, in my personal life that I’ve seen kind of doing similar things.

[00:11:05] And then also, yes, in business, I think this definitely, um, resonates and I, I see that. I obviously I didn’t know about the cookie story before, but to me, it’s like this feminine energy, we’re so good at certain things, the caretaking, the, the empathy, we’re both, um, HSPs as well, highly sensitive people, Patty.

[00:11:30] And so there’s this, you know, very nurturing care that we bring to our business and the feminine energy. But on the other side of the coin, there’s then also this, yeah, this broken cookie effect where we struggle to take care of ourselves, right? Um,

[00:11:51] Patty: yeah. Let me add that the broken cookie effect is not about putting yourself first and everybody else last.

[00:11:59] [00:12:00] That’s against our nature. I mean, talking exactly about what you’re talking about in terms of our feminine energy and our need and ability to nurture. Those are all parts of who we are as humans. And I don’t mean to minimize those or dismiss those at all, but there’s a reason that you’re in business.

[00:12:21] And it’s a reason that there’s a business instead of a hobby. And that is to make money. And often we have to live on the money that we make from our businesses. So there is a real consequence if we’re always putting ourselves last. And So worried about taking care of everyone around us that we miss the idea that unless we take care of ourselves emotionally logistically Being able to delegate being able to put boundaries around what you’re doing and saying Unless we’re able to do that effectively, [00:13:00] then there’s such a high toll that it takes on us as a person Yeah,

[00:13:05] Sarah: so true.

[00:13:07] And on the other hand, I see this kind of Um, either in where, especially in the, you know, the conscious entrepreneur sphere, and I’m again, specifically thinking of women, but it’s probably all, all genders who want to be affordable for everybody because, you know, we’re conscious entrepreneurs and so we need to be affordable for, for everybody.

[00:13:34] Um, And then we apply low prices and, and, and at the same time, then burning out because we just can’t be sustainable with these low prices. So, uh, yeah. So how do we knowing all of that? How do we do it differently where it feels good to ourselves, but it also feels good for our clients who. [00:14:00] You know, where we still want to respect that not everybody can maybe afford high level prices.

[00:14:07] What’s your suggestion

[00:14:10] Patty: here? So that was the question that was really ringing in my head was the phrase that I often hear from women business owners is, but if I raise my prices, it’s not fair to my. Buyers, it’s not fair to my clients. So remember that you as the business owner have a lot of choices and you get to set the stage for what you do and what you don’t do.

[00:14:38] But sometimes we forget that and we think the client is the boss, right? And sometimes we’ve created a job for ourselves instead of building a business. So part of the work that I do is working with women that are further along in their journey, and they want to start building real business value so that one day they can exit their company [00:15:00] and sell it if they choose to.

[00:15:02] But one of the challenges is that when I talk to women business owners, especially those that are expertise based, They say, but I don’t have anything to sell and that is a real misunderstanding of value. So I’m going to go back to the original point about pricing. So the antidote to the broken cookie effect, how you can beat that is with a four step system that I’ve developed called the snap system.

[00:15:31] And the reason there are four pieces and it’s not as simple as raising your prices because if it were that simple. Everybody would do that every year. And just call it a day, right? But it’s not simple, exactly to your point. So the SNAP system stands for S Stop believing the myths and narrow your focus a assess your value and P practice your power and this [00:16:00] actually is the structure of my book, which is called your hidden advantage and that’s a great place to start because not only will you learn the concepts around this, but also their exercises.

[00:16:13] And, um, when you go through those exercises, it will help you gain some clarity because a lot of the reason that we don’t change our pricing or add structure to it is because we’re afraid. And because sometimes we think, well, that’s not fair, but remember you have choices. So here’s what I typically recommend is.

[00:16:37] Add structure to your pricing, build a pricing model. It makes you more confident because there’s a rationale behind how you’re pricing and do that only with new clients. And leave your current clients alone. You can change the pricing over time with your existing clients, but there’s no big hurry [00:17:00] and your new clients won’t really know the difference.

[00:17:03] So going back to the snap system, stop believing the myths. So those are all those limiting beliefs like pricing. I price based on what the market can bear. And that is. That’s kind of my pet peeve because there’s no such thing as what the market can bear as long as you understand that there’s a price point for every buyer.

[00:17:28] And we see that all the time. We see that in retail, right? There are different stores. You can buy a blouse in any of those stores, but which woman shops in which store depends on how much money she can spend and what she thinks is important and your buyers. Come to you with that same mindset. So if you can build what I call the perceived value The value in the mind of your buyer, then every step you take to build value helps your buyer [00:18:00] understand your pricing, your compensation, and there isn’t any pushback.

[00:18:07] Now, the important part of that is the end. Narrow your focus, because that’s about finding right fit clients, what I call ideal buyers. And a lot of times we’re waiting for the phone to ring, we’re only, we only have an inbound process. Sometimes we don’t have a process at all. We’re waiting for the phone to ring and then we’re winging it, trying to figure out how do we convince this person to buy from us.

[00:18:39] And that approach Does not work or if it works temporarily all of a sudden it will stop working and you will be shocked and horrified that now what do you do your job is the business owner is not to convince anyone of anything that’s just not your role you if you [00:19:00] provide an expertise. Or if you provide any kind of service or even a product product is a little bit easier because you have a supply chain and you can price your product partially based on the expenses of producing that product with a service company sometimes it feels like we pick a number out of thin air.

[00:19:21] And that doesn’t feel good. So building a pricing model is really important. But the snap system is in that order for a reason, because the limiting thinking is your first issue. So I teach in my book, how do you shift the way you think? The second piece, narrow your focus is about finding those buyers who understand the value you bring.

[00:19:46] That means they also will understand your pricing model and they’re going to be such great clients because they already value you and the assess your value is about building your pricing [00:20:00] model and I teach how to do that in the book as well and the last piece is practice your power that is all about communicating and the huge challenge we have as women is that we’re typically raised not to talk about ourselves.

[00:20:15] And that if you talk about yourself, it’s bragging and that doesn’t feel good. So I’m based in Houston, Texas in the U S and we have a saying here in Texas that it’s not bragging if it’s true. And I grew up believing that, that we can talk about ourselves effectively without it feel like. Feeling like it’s bragging so that is part of what I teach as well is how do you communicate assertively and with confidence and I teach very specific techniques to do that.

[00:20:50] Sarah: There’s so much that, um, you just shared in just a few minutes. And I, I want to unpack some, uh, some of the things you, you mentioned. I think the [00:21:00] first thing that really stood out, and I think it’s super important to, to repeat is you said applied new prices to new clients. Keep your old prices for existing clients.

[00:21:14] And I think. That is really unique advice or, or, or maybe other people say it, but they don’t say it often enough because I feel like there’s this message that everybody hears, Oh, I need to always increase my prices. And then people go out and send out this email to all their clients saying my prices are now, you know, this much, and then they start losing all their clients and they wonder what they did wrong, um, well, they, what they did wrong is that.

[00:21:46] The previous clients, they bought into the value that you sold them then, right? And so you really need to kind of communicate your new value first, so that the new clients [00:22:00] buy into this new value that you’re selling. And I think that, yeah, that’s key. And that’s, that’s really what I’m doing right now with the humane marketing circle as well.

[00:22:09] Um, and I’m going to be very transparent about that. You know, the existing clients, they are members, let’s say they bought in at a lower price and it’s normal, uh, that when you build a community, there’s not that much, uh, not that many members yet, not that much engagement, right. You could get in at a lower price, but now we have 60 members.

[00:22:33] There’s now four calls per month. Well, the value has increased like by huge amounts. And so obviously I had to raise my price. And so the new members will, yes, they will get in at a higher price, but they also buy in at a higher value. And I think that’s really important to understand that you can’t just expect.

[00:22:54] Now, if I would send out to all my existing members saying, Oh, the price is [00:23:00] now double. Well, a few of them would probably say, well, okay, but that’s too bad. I bought in at this rate. Now this won’t work for me anymore. It’s not that they don’t value it. It’s more just like. They bought into it when it was a different price.

[00:23:18] And so they would be disappointed, uh, to see that, you know, the price now doubled. And I think that is so key to remember then just not do that with existing clients either. Um, so yeah, I really appreciate you saying that.

[00:23:34] Patty: Yes, and think about it this way, too. The people who bought in at the beginning took a risk, right?

[00:23:41] Yeah, there could have been very little value and I bet all of us have experienced that where we’ve gotten involved with a program And it turned out there really wasn’t that much value to it Right. We took a risk spending our money and investing in something Because we believed in the person doing it or [00:24:00] we thought there was going to be a lot of value So not only did we take a risk, but we’ve remained loyal We’ve remained a member because we’re happy to help that grow Exactly.

[00:24:12] Yeah, and we’ve all had that experience. So I think there should be some reward For that taking a risk and being loyal and helping build the membership exactly and because of that Keeping the legacy prices makes sense to everybody. Mm hmm.

[00:24:30] Sarah: Yeah, yeah, totally. Um, the other things you mentioned in your, in your SNAP system, um, so the first one, yeah, is basically the mindset piece, right?

[00:24:42] How do you get, how do you stop believing some of these myths around pricing? And it’s so important that Everything you do starts with the mindset shift. Um, and I’m so glad you, yeah, you talk about that too. And then, uh, just like in [00:25:00] marketing or branding as well, like anything we do online, well, we need to be very clear who we are talking to.

[00:25:08] And so it seems like it’s the same thing for our prices. The one question I have, and I guess it’s the same in marketing, um, can we have different ideal clients? And if so, will the prices be different?

[00:25:28] Patty: Possibly. So, yes, um, I think what you’re describing is clients who want different services.

[00:25:38] Sarah: It could be different.

[00:25:39] It could be different services. Um, it could be different. It could be the same service, but different levels of access things like this,

[00:25:48] Patty: right? Absolutely. And you can customize that. So that is the power of the pricing model, right? As you could use one pricing model with different levels. Right. [00:26:00] And, um, so I have two parts to my audience.

[00:26:04] One are those that are earlier in their journey, they’re very focused on growth and that’s really who I wrote the book for. The other part of my audience are women that are further along in their journey and want a position for exit. So there is a difference in, it’s the same pricing model that I use, but there’s a difference because Transcribed There’s a difference in complexity in terms of how I’m advising those business owners.

[00:26:34] So yes, that works really well. You can also, and I give examples of this in the book, you can take a couple different pricing models and blend those together. And use kind of a hybrid that works really well. And I can give you an example. I work with a lot of accountants and many of them are outsourced chief financial officers.

[00:26:58] So they’re advising [00:27:00] other businesses about their business, their financial strategies and. The base pricing model that we developed is a monthly fee for the advisory services, but almost a hundred percent of the clients need some kind of project at the beginning. Let’s say they need their bookkeeping cleaned up or they need an audit.

[00:27:27] An informal audit done to figure out where they are financially. Sometimes things have gotten messed up with a previous bookkeeper. So they need that project at the beginning. So we have a scoping template that will help them do that to figure out the pricing for that project, and then they go into the monthly fee.

[00:27:50] So that’s a hybrid. Situation and regardless of the dollar amount that you put on that model the [00:28:00] model stays the same and that is something it’s easier for your buyers to understand it easier for you to talk about it because all of a sudden when you’re talking about it you’re talking about the structure and it’s not personal.

[00:28:16] It’s not about you or your expertise or your staff. It’s about the structure of the pricing and your buyer will really understand that. Right.

[00:28:26] Sarah: So if I’m understanding this correctly, when you talk about the pricing model, that means it’s specific to your business. And in the case of the, uh, outsourced, uh, CFO, uh, it could take some done for you work and then kind of a retainer portion.

[00:28:45] Right. And so it just depends on what kind of services. You are, um, delivering and how would this, because I have a lot of coaches who, who are listening, could you give me an idea of how [00:29:00] this could work if you’re mainly selling your coaching services, could there be a done for you proportion to it? How could you, um, Come up with a creative pricing model.

[00:29:13] Patty: So it would really depend on the services the coaches are offering. So most coaches, especially business coaches, are helping them with different aspects of their business. So that’s why a monthly amount, perhaps it’s paid at the beginning of every month, what I could call a retainer. Perhaps that is a really good method.

[00:29:36] Now, the reason That people are afraid to do that is because they feel as though they might get taken advantage of. They’re still thinking in hours and they’re thinking. What right there thinking well what if my client calls me like three times a day and it’s kind of driving me crazy and all this stuff and i’m not really being compensated for that because i have this flat [00:30:00] rate monthly fee so that goes back to boundaries and setting expectations so i believe that.

[00:30:10] When we’re talking about finding your ideal client, that’s backwards because you need to find an ideal buyer and help them be ready to buy so that you can then help them become an ideal client. That does not happen by accident. And it happens when you set and manage those expectations at the very beginning.

[00:30:33] Once they become a client and you draw those boundaries and you help them understand what’s included and what is not included. And then if they need. extra help, then you have the ability to go back to them and say, well, you’ll recall that our setup is that this includes two meetings a month and emails.

[00:30:55] If you would like to add some meetings or calls, I have this piece that you [00:31:00] can add on to it. And this is what it would cost again, structural, not personal. And it makes it so much easier to go back to your client and say, I’m happy to help you. And here’s what it will cost to add on this piece and whether or not your client is going to say, yes, depends on if they can afford it.

[00:31:21] And if they value it. And if you’ve shown them every step of the way, the kind of value that you bring. So going back to what you said a few minutes ago about there is no cookie cutter solution. That is true of everything in your business and most importantly, pricing. There is no cookie cutter answer and you need to figure out what works in your business with the population that you want to work with.

[00:31:49] And right now you may not have a population of ideal clients. You may feel as though you have to take everyone who comes to you. In order to generate enough revenue [00:32:00] and that is a trap it’s a really unfortunate trap and a very common one so if you will take a step back and really go out and find your ideal buyer you have to define who that is and then go find them and I give some strategies in the book once you do that then you’ll you will notice a night and day difference because.

[00:32:25] Then you’re working with people that you’re excited to work with. You get great results. They’re willing to put in the work and you’re not just taking anyone who comes to you. And it makes that whole pricing conversation kind of a non issue because everyone understands the value.

[00:32:43] Sarah: Yeah, let’s talk about this value.

[00:32:46] Um, because I think that’s one thing that is hugely important for pricing, right? Uh, so how, what are some strategies that you can share that would help listeners? [00:33:00] Communicate their value better, because if we said it before, you can’t just increase your prices. You need to, I think, first increase your confidence.

[00:33:10] Uh, so I guess to go back to the myths, right, that’s where you need to stop and start on working on your confidence and in your mindset. And then and then also communicate your value in a different way so what are some ways that you have seen with clients how did they start to communicate their value

[00:33:30] Patty: differently one of the problems that we start with is that we think value is.

[00:33:38] All about the results. It is largely about results and you certainly want to get results, but I bet your audience is already getting good results and I bet they pride themselves on that because most of us are high achievers and we, that’s the problem with over delivering [00:34:00] is it’s such a slippery slope because once you say, okay, I’ll add that.

[00:34:05] I’m not going to charge you extra. I’ll go ahead and add that service. Where can where do you stop right and your client doesn’t understand the value because you just gave it to them for free So again, it’s a trap and then how do you say no in the future, right? It becomes more and more difficult. We feel more and more afraid so When you start things from the very beginning It’s really helpful.

[00:34:34] So Some examples of how can you build value think about all the things? In fact, let me share an exercise that your audience can do today, and that is find a, an accountability partner, someone who knows you well, knows your business, you know them and their business, and you’re about the same point in your journey, [00:35:00] and you are going to write down.

[00:35:04] Everything of value that you think the other person provides for their clients, and they’re going to do the same thing for you, then you’re going to exchange. And it’s a really powerful exercise because they will put things on your list. That you would never have thought of. So when I did this exercise many, many years ago, the thing that surprised me most is that the first item on the list that I received was calm and that I have a calming voice and a calming demeanor.

[00:35:38] I would never have put that on my list.

[00:35:41] Sarah: Yeah, because you just are the way you are. Right. And so you exactly know that about, well, maybe you knew it, but you didn’t think it was a value because. You just assumed everybody

[00:35:52] Patty: was like that. That’s exactly right. And then I went and tested the things on my list, and every [00:36:00] time I would ask them, so what do you think of calm as one of the points of value?

[00:36:05] And every single person I talked to, clients and colleagues, they all said, oh, of course. Absolutely. You have the most calming voice and my clients would say, and I know if I call you and I’m completely freaked out about something, you’re going to share a different perspective and it’s going to calm me down and I’m going to be able to make better decisions.

[00:36:29] So it’s tremendously valuable, but I didn’t recognize that. So you will be surprised at what people put on your list. And that’s why it’s such a powerful exercise. Then once you get your list, go test it. And ask people in your circle. The other thing that we often overlook is our network, your network. If you’ve spent time and energy building your network of people and contacts and those other [00:37:00] experts, that is incredible value for your clients.

[00:37:04] And yet, just like being calm, we think, Oh, but you know, everybody has a network and everybody thinks, you know, that’s, that’s what you do in business. But I will tell you, if you can shortcut something for your clients by making an introduction to somebody that you already trust, that is a huge value. So those kinds of things that we are not thinking of on a day to day basis will help build value.

[00:37:34] If you have staff, even if they’re contractors, they don’t have to be employees, but anyone that helps you in your business. That is valuable to your clients because anybody you have helping you means you get to focus on what you do best. And that helps your clients. Yeah,

[00:37:53] Sarah: that’s such a good point. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s the small things.

[00:37:59] That [00:38:00] again, like you said, we don’t think of that are actually make the big difference and, and, and sometimes it’s in, I talk in the selling like a human book, I talk about tangible value and intangible value. And so some of the things you just mentioned is intangible, right? Well, how does calming that’s going to help my inner.

[00:38:24] Garden, right? And so that’s kind of intangible where some of the tangible value is, is maybe something that is really easy for you. For example, what’s really easy for me is to write someone’s LinkedIn profile. I’ve done that for 15 years, right? So it’s really easy for me, for someone else, for my clients.

[00:38:44] That is a huge burden. And so they’re like super appreciative of me adding this just as an add on, uh, service. Right. And so that, that’s the, kind of the done for you aspects that you can add that then [00:39:00] also kind of show this tangible value where they can say, okay, check, you know, this is now also off my plate.

[00:39:07] And there are, there, there’s not one that’s better than the other. I feel like tangible and intangible. They are equal in, especially in the times we are now, like serenity, calm, focus, all of these things are so super valuable. So I’m really glad you, you brought those up and, and what a great exercise. Yeah.

[00:39:27] To do that with a friend who then brings out things that you didn’t even know about. Right. Yeah. What are some things, uh, advice that you could give. Someone who’s, who’s just starting out and, and are, is probably struggling still with this idea of, uh, determining fair pricing, where would you tell them to start?

[00:39:51] It’s probably definitely the, you know, stop the, the myths. That’s probably the first step. But then if we go into the more tangible things, [00:40:00] where would you tell them to start?

[00:40:02] Patty: Well, you know. I’ve experienced exactly what you’re describing just starting out. So in a former life, I had a business in political consulting and lobbying and had that business for about eight years.

[00:40:15] And the challenge that I experienced was that my revenue was tied to the election cycle in the U. S. So I was on this rollercoaster all the time, revenue ups and downs. So that was really frustrating. And if there were resources to help me. Grow my business and solve those problems. I didn’t know how to find those resources and I didn’t know who to trust.

[00:40:41] So that was really frustrating for me. I also, I was a really good consultant, but I didn’t know how to price and I didn’t know how to sell and. When I went out to try and find programs and courses and figure all that out and I took a lot of those What I found is that [00:41:00] primarily they were designed by men for men and they weren’t working for me And when I started talking to my friends who were business owners, they said the same thing Well, I tried that method and it didn’t work for me either and at first we think it’s us We think, oh, well, I just can’t make that work.

[00:41:18] The problem is they’re not understanding. Those programs are not understanding the way women think, the way we operate, the way we struggle, how we’re juggling a million things, including our families and our businesses and our personal needs and all of those things and sometimes taking care of parents.

[00:41:41] And so I’ve been in that situation and. I really struggled when I was starting my business in political consulting, and that’s why I started developing my own programs, because it’s designed by a woman, by me, specifically for other women business owners. And that [00:42:00] has worked really well. So I would say if you’re just starting out, take advantage of the shortcuts that are available to you.

[00:42:09] Don’t struggle for as many years as I did. I wish someone had. Been able to provide some relief for me, but I had to figure it out myself. And so what I would recommend is read your hidden advantage, because that is the recipe for the different steps that you can take with the snap system of how you can learn how to price, how to deal with your limiting beliefs, how to find the right people that you want to work with.

[00:42:40] And when I say right, people, right. People for you. Right. So you probably already know who you do want to work with and who you do not want to work with. You can start with who you don’t want to work with, right? Sometimes that’s easier and rule [00:43:00] out the people. So my guess is no one in your audience wants to work with somebody who is arrogant and mean.

[00:43:07] All right, definitely. Okay, so if we eliminate all the arrogant, mean people, then you can start to pair back. Well, what’s the opposite of that? Who do I really want to work with? I want to work with kind, giving, thoughtful, smart people. And then I start. Really creating a picture. So a colleague of mine asked me not too long ago, if I had to pick a fictional character as my ideal buyer, who would it be?

[00:43:39] And it only took me about 10 seconds to realize, have you ever seen the show, the X Files? Okay. Dana Scully is my ideal buyer. If, if she was a business owner, she would absolutely be my ideal buyer because she’s a high achieving, highly educated woman. She is devoted to her [00:44:00] work. Sometimes she thinks her work is her hobby and she takes responsibility.

[00:44:05] She makes good decisions. She believes in evidence based science, but she’s open to new ideas. That really describes my ideal buyer. And when you can think of a fictional character in that way, that may help you determine who you really want to work with, then you want to attract them in your messaging and how you talk about yourself, your value, and then you want to go out and find that person.

[00:44:37] And remember that even if you’re selling into big companies, you’re still selling to a person. It’s still a human being. And when I say selling, I don’t mean convincing. I mean, taking them on a sales journey so that they’re ready to buy and they understand the value and they’re excited to work with you.

[00:44:59] [00:45:00] Yeah,

[00:45:00] Sarah: yeah, I call it resonating. And so it’s very similar, right? Because we’re not pushing and it’s just being present out there and yeah, resonating with the right clients. So they come into your gentle sales path and in the gentle sales path, there was no convincing, just like you mentioned people. And I guess that’s why I have focused so heavily on marketing because.

[00:45:28] When you market the human way, you then don’t almost don’t need to sell anymore because then it’s just, it’s just a human conversation that has to do with money, but there is no pushing kind of, you know, it’s not a unidirectional sales conversation where you’re pushing something. So,

[00:45:51] Patty: and I believe. Yeah, I believe the same thing.

[00:45:54] And again, that works so much better and more effectively for women.

[00:45:59] Sarah: Yeah, [00:46:00] exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I was reflecting on this whole thing with the, you know, with this feminine energy and the, the cookie story, like, cause we have obviously male listeners as well. And I, I’m just actually curious. To, I would love to hear if you’re listening to this and you’re in a male body, uh, I would love to hear whether you see this happening as well in the business world, I’d be curious because I see it even in like mastermind groups or small communities like that where, you know, we’re very value aligned and the males are very much Hey.

[00:46:43] Um, aligned also with the feminine energy. And yet I always feel like to them, it’s just normal to be seen, to take up space. And it’s not the same for the women in the group, right? [00:47:00] Even though the values are aligned, even though they’re not, you know, macho type guys who, you know, that they, but it’s just comes natural.

[00:47:10] And I think it’s, it’s part of our history. It’s just how we’ve, yeah, we’ve kind of. Evolved over time and always looking at our, our moms and the moms before that is really part of this, uh, story that we need to let

[00:47:29] Patty: go of. There is and also if you keep in perspective, the pressure that is put on the guys.

[00:47:36] So I have two brothers and when I was growing up, there was a lot of pressure put on my brothers because they were expected to be breadwinners. I, as a woman. Now, again, you can think of this as chauvinistic, but I wasn’t expected to be a breadwinner. I became a breadwinner, but I wasn’t raised that way.

[00:47:59] And I had to [00:48:00] learn a lot of these skills, which I did with my political consulting business. And but then I have to say, all of a sudden I was 35 years old, had three little kids at home, a thriving business and a surprise divorce. And I was thrust into the situation of all of a sudden I’m now responsible because there was no financial support.

[00:48:25] So I’m responsible for raising my three children on my own with no emotional, logistical or financial support. And that is why I closed my political consulting business. And went to get a job and part of that was because a lobbying required a lot of travel and I knew that I needed to be home to stabilize things for the kids at that time.

[00:48:49] My youngest was about 2 and he just turned 31. So, I have raised my children myself and I have, um, help them all get through [00:49:00] college and graduate school and launch their careers. And now they’re all 3 business owners. Nice. Congratulations. Thank you. So, you know, all the twists and turns that we experience in our lives.

[00:49:11] I wasn’t raised to be a breadwinner, but I became that because I had to. And because of that, those skills that I learned. Over the course of my life now, I really can put them to work in teaching other women how to build your confidence You have more power and choices than you realize And again part of that is how we’re raised and it’s generational So 30 or 40 years from now, maybe that won’t be the case for women But right now it is and we are very influenced by previous generations and the role models that we grew up with Yeah,

[00:49:56] Sarah: let’s hope it won’t be like that anymore 30, 30 years [00:50:00] from now, or hopefully even less.

[00:50:02] Patty: Exactly.

[00:50:03] Sarah: Wonderful. Well, this has been really interesting and, uh, yeah, just very great and deep conversation. Thank you so much, Patty. Please do mention your book again, and where people can find you, your website, everything.

[00:50:18] Patty: You bet, and thank you again for having me, this has been great. You can contact me through my website, theblockgroup.

[00:50:27] net, and if you’re interested in the book, There are several bonuses that you can download for free that are companion pieces to the book, including a video training called The Value Equation. And the book is called Your Hidden Advantage, which you can find on Amazon. But if you go to yourhiddenadvantage.

[00:50:46] com, you can also access the bonuses.

[00:50:50] Sarah: Wonderful. I’ll make sure to put those links in the show notes. Thank you. I always ask one last question, uh, Patty, and that is what are you grateful for [00:51:00] this week or today?

[00:51:02] Patty: Well, I have a new grandson and, and he made me a grandmother. So I am, he’s just turning six months old.

[00:51:12] And very sadly, my mom passed away about six months ago. She, she died a month or two before he was born. And, um, It was very shocking because she wasn’t ill and she was so happy. And my mom and I were very, very close. And in fact, the book is in many ways, a tribute to my mom. And there are stories about her.

[00:51:37] And as I was writing the book and she was so excited for it to come out and I would ask her, can I use this story? Can I use this photograph? And she was so excited with all the pieces that I was adding to the book. And. Sadly, she passed away very suddenly, and it turns out that my new grandson is named [00:52:00] after her.

[00:52:01] So it’s really a lovely tribute, and I’m so grateful that I’m grateful for my family, my children, for sure, and for my new grandson.

[00:52:11] Sarah: Yeah, it’s wonderful. Yeah. Sorry for your mom’s passing, but who knows? Maybe he, he really took her spirit and, and came back. Yes. It’s wonderful. Thanks so much for spending time with me today.

[00:52:26] Thanks, Patty. Thank you. I hope you got some great value from listening to this episode. You can find out more about Patti and her work at theblockgroup. net and Patti has a free training called The Value Equation, which you can get for free by signing up for the bonuses that are companion pieces for Patti’s book, Your Hidden Advantage, Unlock the Power to Attract Right Fit Clients and Boost Your Revenue, so definitely check it out.

[00:52:56] Uh, look up her book and see if that’s a good fit for [00:53:00] you. If you’re looking for others who think like you, then why not join us in the Humane Marketing Circle? You can find out more about the circle at humane. marketing forward slash circle. And again, a reminder that the early bird discount of 200 for the Marketing Like We’re Human, aka the Client Resonator program, is ending on July 31st.

[00:53:25] So if you are interested in that program and would like to benefit from that discount, please make sure you book a call with me before that deadline. It doesn’t matter if we speak after, I will still apply the discount, but just send me an email and we’ll book a call. And, uh, yeah, I’d love to have to have you on that, uh, program.

[00:53:47] You find the show notes of this episode at humane dot marketing forward slash H M one 69. And on this beautiful page, you’ll also find a series of free offers [00:54:00] such as the humane business manifesto in the free gentle confidence mini course, as well as my two books, marketing like we’re human and selling like we’re human.

[00:54:11] Thank you so much for listening. And being part of a generation of marketers who cares for yourself, your clients, and the planet. We are changemakers before we are marketers. So now go be the change you want to see in the world. Speak soon.

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