Humane Listbuilding: How to Communicate via email

Teresa Heath-Wareing

In this episode of the Humane Marketing podcast, we delve into the world of email marketing and listbuilding with guest Teresa Heath-Wareing, an online business, marketing, and mindset expert. As part of our ongoing exploration of the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala, we focus on the ‘P’ of Promotion and discuss how to make email marketing more humane and less pushy. Tune in to learn about building an email list, creating a valuable ‘Freebie’, navigating the tech, and sending out engaging content to potential clients without being too salesy.

"We need to know exactly who your people are, what their problem is, and then you need to give them some very good advice to help with that problem." – @theathwareing @sarahsantacroce #humanemarketing Share on X

In this episode, you’ll learn about humane listbuilding as well as…

  • How to get started with building an email list
  • How to get people on to your list, in a saturated market where we all have too much email already?
  • How to create a ‘Freebie’ worth downloading
  • What about the tech?
  • What do we send out once people downloaded our Freebie?
  • How do we make Email Marketing humane and non pushy?
  • And so much more

Teresa’s Resources

Teresa’s Mindset Hacks for Small Business Owners

Teresa’s Website

Your Dream Business Podcast

Connect with Teresa on:




Sarah’s Resources

Watch this episode on Youtube

(FREE) Sarah’s One Page Marketing Plan

(FREE) Sarah Suggests Newsletter

(FREE) The Humane Business Manifesto

(FREE) Gentle Confidence Mini-Course

Marketing Like We’re Human – Sarah’s book

The Humane Marketing Circle

Authentic & Fair Pricing Mini-Course

Podcast Show Notes

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Email Sarah at

Thanks for listening!

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Ep 156

[00:00:00] Sarah: Hello, humane marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today’s conscious customers because it’s humane, ethical, and non-pushy.

[00:00:23] I’m Sarah z Croce, your hippie turn business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama Bear of the Humane Marketing Circle. And renegade author of marketing like We’re human and selling like we’re human. If after listening to the show for a while, you are ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like-minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what.

[00:00:52] Works and what doesn’t work in business, then we’d love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you’re picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like-minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a Zoom Circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way.

[00:01:16] We share with transparency and vulnerability what works for us and what doesn’t work, so that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti. On the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at, and if you prefer one-on-one support from me. My Humane Business Coaching could be just what you need, whether it’s for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book.

[00:01:47] I’d love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my Mama Bear qualities as my one-on-one client can find out more at Humane Marketing slash coaching.

[00:02:10] And finally, if you are a Marketing Impact pioneer and would like to bring Humane Marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my

[00:02:31] Hello friends. Welcome back. I hope you’re doing well. Before we dive into today’s conversation, I just want to take a moment to tell you a bit about what’s new in our community. The Humane Marketing Circle. As you know, that’s the community for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who are ready for something different, something new, a new way of marketing, and a new way of business building really.

[00:02:58] and also a new [00:03:00] way of being in community. So here’s how our community calls work. In the first half of the call, members bring their questions and we have a conversation about what works for us in marketing. For example, on one of the last calls we talked about ai. We share tools, but also discuss benefits, dangers, and overall ethical questions that AI brings up.

[00:03:27] And in the second half of the call, we always go into breakout rooms to have a more intimate conversation with another heart-centered entrepreneur, which is super valuable to have kind of this one-on-one or two-on-one feedback. And this month’s topic is the P of Personal Power, and we discuss how. Our core values make us and our business really different from our peers.

[00:03:55] So that’s the format of our calls. And in [00:04:00] 2022 we came together once per month for a call. But now in 2023 we have two monthly meetings and one of the calls is hosted by me, the other call is hosted by one of our ambassador team members in turn. So there’s a small team of ambassadors, circle members who are now have stepped up and are now hosting these calls in turn.

[00:04:24] And I’m just so happy to see that taking place cuz that was exactly my vision for the Humane Marketing Circle. Kind of this responsibility of the members stepping up. That means we get even more opportunity to bring our questions and learn from everyone. We’re also currently transitioning to our new community platform on Cajabi, and it really looks great and has all the features that we were missing on Trello, which was the tool that we used to use before.

[00:04:59] And so that [00:05:00] new platform helps us stay connected with each other, in between the calls, hold each other accountable with challenges, messaging between members and so much more. And really, I resisted this for a long time because it’s just not my zone of genius to kind of facilitate these online platforms or, or groups.

[00:05:22] But the members have asked for it. And so we’re creating it. And actually to help me with the facilitation of this community, this online community, I also just hired a community facilitator. So not to be confused with a social. Manager who’s just posting questions and, and you know, visuals and quotes and things.

[00:05:46] But really, Eddie that’s the name of the great guy that we hired as a community facilitator. His main role is to facilitate the interactions between members, nurture [00:06:00] relationships, and help people get answers within that online community. And Eddie studied this, so he studied community design and I’m, yeah, I’m really super excited to have him on board.

[00:06:14] The best thing right now is that if you join right now, the price is still at the same low $37 per month, after a $7 for seven day trial. So you can, will also just check us out to see it. Probably join just before one of the calls to get that live interaction and see if we’re the right fit for you. With the second monthly call.

[00:06:39] And once the Cajabi community is fully developed and active, I’ll bring the rate back up to 47 per month. But for the next few weeks, it will remain at 37 per month. And that’s lifetime. So if you join now, that will always be your monthly rate. So now is a good [00:07:00] time to join us and build this different way of marketing together.

[00:07:05] Well that’s why we’re calling it a A revolution. A humane revolution. So if you’d like to be supported by a group of like-minded individuals, I call them the quietly rebellious entrepreneurs, they’re also all deep think. So if that’s your kind of people that you want to hang out with and learn from and share with, then check out the details at

[00:07:34] Okay, back to the show. Today’s conversation fits under the P of promotion. And if you are already regular here, you know that I’m organizing the conversations around the seven Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. And if this is your first time here, big warm welcome. You probably don’t know what I’m talking about, but you can download your one-page marketing plan with the humane marketing [00:08:00] version of the seven Ps of slash one page, the number one and the word page.

[00:08:08] And this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different PS for your business. . So my guest today is Teresa Heath Waring, and she is an online business marketing and mindset expert who works with business owners from across the world, helping them to build a business and life they love, as well as inspiring members to dream big and set ambitious long-term business goals.

[00:08:37] Teresa equips them with Practic. Actionable steps to get them closer to their goals. Her holistic emphasis on the whole business and the mindset of the business owner enables her members to navigate a world of running a business with Theresa as their biggest cheerleader, an international bestselling author, award-winning speaker and [00:09:00] TEDx speaker.

[00:09:00] She is the host of your dream business podcast, which where I used to be a guest as well. And Theresa is recognized alongside some of the world’s digital marketing thought leaders and is widely regarded as one of the UK’s leading marketing influencers. . In today’s episode, I asked Teresa to come onto the Humane Marketing Podcast to talk about Humane List building.

[00:09:27] Theresa and I discussed the following topics, how to get started with building an email list, how to get people onto your list in a saturated market where we all have too much email already, how to create a freebie really worth downloading. How about the tech that so many people are afraid of what to send out once people actually downloaded our freebie and our on our email list, and how do we make email marketing humane and non-pushy [00:10:00] and so much more?

[00:10:01] So let’s just dive right in. Here’s Theresa and me talking about humane list building. . Hi Theresa. I’m so excited for our conversation.

[00:10:13] Teresa: Yay. Thanks for being here. Nice too. No, my pleasure. I’m excited too. Wonderful.

[00:10:18] Sarah: So we could have had. So many topics to talk about, right? Mm-hmm. . But when we first chatted I was like, well, you just finished one of your list building challenges.

[00:10:29] And so I was like, oh, I think that is a good one. And we actually met on a, what was it called? Exactly, something with Authentic Marketing Summit with Marcy. And, and so I was like, oh, okay, so this is the right person to talk about humane list building. And so that’s what I yeah, that’s what I think where we can go.

[00:10:50] But as I just said offline, I think for most people it’s like, okay, that sounds like a good idea to build your email list. [00:11:00] But where do I get started? How do I get started? Yeah. So maybe just tell us a little bit about who you are and then as you can tell, We have a habit here to just dive in.

[00:11:12] That is and go into the

[00:11:13] Teresa: topic. I have no problem with that. So I am a a business owner, an online business owner, a speaker, a podcaster, an author. But basically I help amazing business owners, predominantly women. Not that I only work with women, but I seem to attract a lot of women who are trying to create a business and life that actually works for them and their season of life, and isn’t something that they’ve looked at that some experts told them, it’s gotta be this way, or you’ve gotta win this much, or you’ve gotta charge this much, or you’ve gotta earn seven figures and you’ve gotta do it online.

[00:11:49] It’s about understanding who they are and what they want and what’s important to them and their season of life, because we all have other people in our world and other things in our world, and we need to [00:12:00] make sure that our business balance with those things so that we’re creating. Not this monster that actually we end up going, this is not what I want to do.

[00:12:09] Mm-hmm. we create something that we’re going to love. So I do that and I do it in a variety of ways and, and those ways include more of a mindset, kind of motivational, inspirational side. But also I’m incredibly practical because of the fact of, I have 18 years experience in marketing now, which is a really long time.

[00:12:30] And I have worked with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of business owners during that time. . I know that sometimes you need the motivation and the inspiration and the mindset and the personal development, and sometimes you just need someone to give you a straight answer. So hopefully that’s what I bring with both.

[00:12:48] And one of the things that I talk a lot about and one of my, my key things I guess, that I teach on is list building. And it’s so important because no matter what [00:13:00] role I’ve been in and I’ve been in, as you can imagine, many, many, many different marketing roles from, you know, heading up corporate marketing for Land Rover UK to working with a teeny tiny company that has no budget and I have to do everything.

[00:13:12] So I’ve kind of done it all. And one thing that has never really gone away, and in fact in my mind is just going to strength to strength is email marketing. Mm-hmm. , and I think probably a few. Years back when social media really kicked in, maybe, gosh, even now. Well, I started my business eight years ago and it was probably at that point it was really getting good for business.

[00:13:36] I think people thought, oh, well we have all these new amazing ways I’m gonna do this and I don’t need to think about some of these old school ways. But actually that’s moved. Email has moved with social media and with technology. And when you are in marketing or when, well, whether you have a business or whatever it is, and you’re trying to market more options are better than less always.[00:14:00]

[00:14:00] So it’s so important to make sure that you’ve got that email list or you have another way to contact them. And the other key thing is that often, if. Communicating with your clients or your per perspective customers through social media. You don’t own that platform. That platform is not you. Yours, you are marketing on borrowed ground.

[00:14:17] So basically you are marketing on something that doesn’t belong to you. And at any point, as we well know, because Instagram changes like the wind, that they can change something and it completely affects everything. And at the moment, you know, and I’ll openly talk about stuff myself, but my own Instagram is terrible at the moment.

[00:14:34] Like in terms of the engagement on the post, it’s so much worse than it used to be. So we need to make sure we have somewhere else that we can market directly to our customers. So in terms of getting started, it’s a couple of things, and this is why I think so many people get put off by it because it can feel overwhelming.

[00:14:52] there’s a few things you have to think about first. First is how are you gonna email them? And this is the bit that no one wants to think about cuz this is the [00:15:00] tech. But ultimately you can’t do this without some tech, but it’s not big and massive and huge and it’s not fancy funnels and clever things.

[00:15:11] It’s just a case of you need a system that you can add email addresses to and then send an email to those people. Now you can’t do it through your normal email, so you can’t do it through. . If you know you’re using a business address or a Gmail, or it’s hosted by Gmail, or you’re an Outlook, you can’t send them through that.

[00:15:29] And the reason you can’t do that is, one, they’re not designed to do that. And two, you have to have an unsubscribe on a marketing email, and you can’t have that. That isn’t standard. It has to be standard. So it’s much safer and much smarter to get a system. Now, the one I recommend for everyone getting started is mail light.

[00:15:49] Lots of people know MailChimp. Mm-hmm. . And I know lots of people are on MailChimp, and they might be like, well, why wouldn’t you recommend MailChimp? I describe MailChimp. Not that they would thank me for it but I [00:16:00] describe them as like, A house. So a house that was built a long time ago, and then they had an extension put on, and then they realized they needed more rooms.

[00:16:08] They added a bit over here, and then they wanted something over here and then, and basically they’ve built on, so mail ch MailChimp was there for a really long time, but they’ve added in all that functionality after the fact. And it just doesn’t quite seem to flow right. It doesn’t quite seem to like, it’s not very intuitive.

[00:16:26] It’s not particularly easy. There’s a couple of really funky, weird things that it does. So for me, someone like Maite who started off basically as if they bought a piece of land and go, right, how are we gonna build this? And then they built it right in the first place because obviously they, they’re not that old, whereas MailChimp is old.

[00:16:41] So

[00:16:41] Sarah: I think that’s another fact, like, you know, MailChimp is old or you know, in terms of social media, old, and so they constantly had to adapt. And so that’s why it’s just house stuck. I kept building on other things. Right? Yeah, absolutely. Where if, if you take a newer company, well they build [00:17:00] with this current circumstances in what we need.

[00:17:02] Yes,

[00:17:02] Teresa: yes, yes. And obviously there’s gonna come a point where, you know, Mala light has to tweak and change and all the others do. And they do always constantly, but it’s almost like, it’s almost like they wanna start again with MailChimp. But like I said, lots of people use them. But if you haven’t chose a system, or even if you are using MailChimp, male light really, really is good.

[00:17:21] Very intuitive, really simple to use. But basically you need to. . So like I said, set that up and say, okay, now I’ve got somewhere where I can put emails in and I can email from Now, whether that’s you then taking an email list that you’ve created in Excel or something like that and literally just putting it across, or whether that’s you then creating something called a lead magnet or a content upgrade grade or whatever you wanna call it.

[00:17:47] But basically you are creating an incentive to ask them to come onto your list. Right? Because as much as we’d like to think that people wake up one day and go, oh, I wonder if that person that I barely know or just followed on Instagram has an email, is they’d love to get on it. Like that [00:18:00] doesn’t happen.

[00:18:00] So even though we often have get on our list, on our website or something like that, I think if you honestly asked yourself how many people have opted in through that in the last month, I think most people would be like a few, a handful of people are opting in. If that makes,

[00:18:15] Sarah: I’m gonna pause you there, Teresa.

[00:18:16] Cause I wanna, before we move on to the opt-in or the freebie or the the lead magnet, I wanna come back to the tech because I think. You know, like you said, so many people will start with MailChimp or, or the question I have since you recommended mail or Light, is that a platform that can grow with you?

[00:18:36] You, you would say that, you know, people with big businesses are still able to use?

[00:18:42] Teresa: Yes and no. It’s a great one to start with and it will certainly grow with most small business owners. Mm-hmm. , it can do an element of the automations. It has some good functionality in it and it’s good. However, when I teach my course, I talk about three different platforms.

[00:18:58] I talk about main light. If you’re just [00:19:00] getting started, if you know how to do emails and you wanna start getting a bit fancy and having some call automations, then I use Active Campaign and it’s very. Again, a lot of these platforms though, it’s what you’re used to. So there are, there’s Convert Kit that’s very similar.

[00:19:15] There’s Drip that’s very similar, so there are lots of them out there and this is half the problem. Yeah, it’s too, too much choice. way too much choice. And then the one I recommend, if you’re going all in on an online business and you’re having a membership and a checkout and landing pages and all this kind of cool stuff, then from a cost point of view, something like Kajabi could be really good.

[00:19:35] Mm-hmm. . So what Kajabi has that the others don’t is the facility to do all of that stuff and do it really well. The problem comes, so I currently use Kajabi to host my membership. However, I’m at a point now where I have a guy who builds all my landing pages for me. So I have a tech guy who does all that and they’re built on WordPress.

[00:19:57] And also I have some cool things like I have a [00:20:00] quiz. And that quiz had to plug into somewhere and Kajabi couldn’t handle it. Mm-hmm. . So I’ve now moved to Active Campaign. I say now it’s about a year. So I have active campaign for my emails. I have Kajabi for those other things. But when you, again, when you first get started, if you’re going in the online world, the emails can’t do.

[00:20:19] Kajabi are great, but they can’t go to the level the active campaign can do, or I wouldn’t say they can. . And therefore at the beginning you don’t wanna pay for two systems, which I didn’t. I just used Kajabi and I kind of thought it is what it is, you know, I’ll just have to go with it. And it was perfectly fine and good enough and capable for the job.

[00:20:38] But active campaign now is much cooler.

[00:20:41] Sarah: I love that you explained that because I think, yeah, there’s one thing is like, okay, I wanna plan big and go big. Mm-hmm. and therefore I’m gonna go for something like, you know, Kajabi. Which was also my move. I went from, actually, I started out with Malechi, then went to AWeber, then went to Active Campaign, and this is over years and [00:21:00] years.

[00:21:00] Yeah. And, and then now finally to Kajabi. And just like you, there’s a little tiny me piece of me as like regretting the move to Gujabi. Yeah. Because once you’re used to something like Active Campaign, which is built only for email. Yes. Then. Cajabi does not do the same job like it. It’s just not, so, yeah, all it is to, to explain that, it obviously depends where your business is at.

[00:21:26] Malar Light seems like a good place to start and you almost kind of maybe do have to plan that eventually, you know, there’s gonna be a

[00:21:35] Teresa: move. And like you said, how many of you had, how many have I had? I was male Chimp, then I was Drip cuz I went and did a certification over in Minnesota. Then I did Infusionsoft.

[00:21:47] Right. So I went like, that was, and I mean, if you wanna go crazy, I mean Infusionsoft is insane. And then I went Kajabi and now I’ve added back in Active campaign. Mm-hmm. But like I said, it was just for that l that extra bit of [00:22:00] functionality. If you are sending emails, if you are wanting automations to go.

[00:22:05] it will do it. You can do sequences in Kajabi. So it’s not that it’s a terrible system, but obviously if you just think about it, they are building a system with so many different things. So they can’t put all of the focus into just the email side of it. Whereas, like I said, active campaign convert kit, that’s all they do, right?

[00:22:22] So therefore they can make sure that they’ve created the best email side they can. Mm-hmm. But again, you know, from a money point of view, you will be absolutely fine just using Kajabi If you are doing an online business, if you’re not doing an online business and you at the moment if you just want to send an email or when someone clicks something, you can send an email for that.

[00:22:42] Or if someone opts into something and send an email for that male male, a light, this is where I start getting more mixed up. Cuz there are so many, and obviously male to male light are very similar male. A light is perfectly good for that. And you’re right, I think. , there will come a point where you go, okay, now I need more.

[00:22:58] But at that point, you’ll be able to [00:23:00] afford more. Whereas the beauty of starting on something like Maite is the fact that it’s so low cost. Mm-hmm. . So even the paid version, the start of the paid version is like $10 a month. Mm-hmm. . Whereas I think probably now because of the size of my list, I probably pay $200 a month fr campaign.

[00:23:16] So it’s a big, big difference. So like I said, get started in those others and it’s a pain to move. I’m not even gonna like, pretend it’s not. It is a pain. It is a pain. I mean, it’s not impossible. It’s not difficult really. It’s just the lot of work. And of course the more you have created. So when we went from well, when we went from Infusionsoft to.

[00:23:39] Kajabi, that was a pain. And when we went from Kajabi to Active campaign, it took us, well, we haven’t even finished, but we spent a solid week working on moving everything across and we haven’t even finished. So it’s not that it’s impossible, it’s just that it’s a new system. You gotta get used to it and you have to move things across and it will take some time.

[00:23:58] So, so yeah. But don’t panic [00:24:00] about that. If you’re just starting and money is more of the concern. If money’s not the concern, then jump straight onto active campaign. Great, fine. Be brilliant. You won’t need to use all the functionality necessary straight away, but it will be there when you’re ready. But if money’s a concern, male light is definitely where I would start.

[00:24:15] Awesome. I think that

[00:24:16] Sarah: was a great tech focus, you know, and it’s like, because sometimes you don’t get this information. Like I, like I say, like people just tell you, well, you know, start a, a mailing list. And then they’re like,

[00:24:27] Teresa: well, wow, which one? Yeah. And there’s so many. And I think the other thing I really wanna reassure people is I am not a tech person, like, The reason I know so much about the tech is one, I’ve used a lot of it myself, but also in my course I identified the fact that that is the one thing that people don’t teach.

[00:24:45] And that’s the one and main stumbling block as to why people don’t finish a process. Right? So, you know, they might, so I can obviously talk about, you know, what a lead magnet is and how we use it and what it’s good for and some of the key things you need to do in it. [00:25:00] And I can talk about your board onboarding emails.

[00:25:02] I can talk about your sequencing, we can talk about what to email them, we can talk about how to get ’em on that email list, which is great and people can get all that. But then the problem is they would look at the tech and some people are great and they’re fine, but a lot of people would go a, I dunno what platform to use b I dunno where the hell to start and I dunno how to make this work.

[00:25:19] So one of the things I did in the, in the course, and I had to teach myself it in many, many, many systems is I the process that I give them, is the process that I taught them through in the course, and one of my members that came and did it, she, how old is she? She’s probably in her early sixties maybe.

[00:25:41] And she was like, she’d been in my membership for ages and obviously they get support from me there, but they don’t get the course. But she could have asked me any question on any coaching call. That would’ve been fine. But she just hadn’t got round to doing it. It was like, yeah, I know what I need to do.

[00:25:55] Haven’t quite sorted out the tech. And we did the course and she was dreading the tech bit and we get on [00:26:00] a call and she, cuz we, we do calls alongside the course so I can answer questions and I can literally go, give me your login or open it on screen and let me see and I’ll point and go click that button.

[00:26:11] And, but she literally came on the call and was like, I could kiss you, literally kiss you. She said, I didn’t think for one second I could do that tech side. She goes, and I literally sat there with your screen on one screen and me on another and you were, the video was like, okay, so when you’re here, go here and click this.

[00:26:29] She goes, and I did. And then you were like, click this and do it. Which I did. She goes and I did it and it’s done. And that’s the thing, like it’s not difficult, but the process is very weird. So again, what’s interesting is a lot of the feedback I get is I would never have started where you said to start, right?

[00:26:46] And it’s because. , I start them at the thank you page, which seems like a really odd place to start. Mm-hmm. . But the problem is when you are setting up a landing page, it’ll say, where do you want this to redirect to? And if you haven’t got that set up, you can’t finish your landing [00:27:00] page. Yeah. So there’s all these kind of little quirks that like, because I know the processing, cause I’ve done the process, it’s like, okay, it’s not that it’s, you can’t do it the other way.

[00:27:10] It just makes it a lot easier and a lot quicker. Mm-hmm. . So I think, like I said, for me, I don’t want people to be sat there going, yeah, it’s all right for you, you’re tech. I’m not, I’m really not. I just had to learn it. But it means I can teach it and it means that obviously if I will probably talk about it in a layman’s way, and I also have the opportunity to have some of these providers come in and do the training on, on that for me.

[00:27:32] But I didn’t want them to because, because I’ve, I’ve taught you to do something very specific. I want you to show how to do that specific thing rather than here’s an overview of the system, this is how it works. So yeah, it’s. . And like I said, the tech bit’s so important. Cause that’s a bit that stumbles people.

[00:27:49] Yeah. And stops people.

[00:27:51] Sarah: But the other thing that you just brought up is, is there’s the tech, but then there’s also the understanding the process. You know, it’s like [00:28:00] Yeah. You have to almost like map it out and maybe Yes. Visually map it out. And so maybe you can just do that for our listeners right now.

[00:28:07] Yeah. Like, yeah. Let’s start with the, you know what most people call lead magnet? I don’t like that language anymore in humane marketing.

[00:28:14] Teresa: Cuz it’s just like, no, you’re right. No, because it doesn’t, the visual is not nice, right? No. There’s, there’s no humane about it. Yeah. Cause it’s a lead magnet. Let’s

[00:28:22] Sarah: call it a, a freebie or I actually call it a signpost where people get to,

[00:28:27] Teresa: you know a hand raiser.

[00:28:28] That’s another thing I call it. It’s like handraiser. I like that. Yeah. I love that. I’m interested in it. I wanna know more. Yeah. They raise their hand.

[00:28:34] Sarah: So let’s start there and then, Talk through the process of what needs to happen

[00:28:38] Teresa: behind the scenes in a way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So at the very beginning, the first thing we talk about is the, the hand raiser, the freebie.

[00:28:47] And I keep it simple, so I tell them to choose something. So the first thing we have to do right at the beginning is we have to know who their customer is. And I don’t just mean like, you know, what age are they and where do they shop? I mean, like, what [00:29:00] is the thing that they’re really struggling with? Get to know them, speak to them, understand them, listen to them and what they’ve gotta say.

[00:29:06] This isn’t, you’re not just trying to sell someone. And again, that is the point of a hand raiser. It’s not a sales tool, which. , I know often can be seen as that way, and ultimately it might lead to a sale. But the idea is you as my perfect customer, as my perfect audience members, part of my community, you have a problem that I can solve because this is where my zone of genius is.

[00:29:28] So I create something that addresses your problem and gives you some solutions, and you have to give them something that is good. I have downloaded that many lead magnets. I can’t even tell you because this is my passion. This is what I do. Like I will drop into someone’s funnel and go through it and look at it all.

[00:29:46] and I’ve downloaded stuff that is useless, absolutely useless. And it’s only just a, I want your email address. It’s not a genuine, I’m trying to help you. So that’s the very first thing we talk about. We need to know [00:30:00] exactly who your people are, what their problem is, and then you need to give me some very good advice to help me with that problem.

[00:30:06] But we always start with a PDF download, which I know sounds very unimaginative and there’s much better ways to attract your perfect audience, but they’re much bigger and more complicated. So I’ve got a. , it was a very big process to do that quiz and I had an expert help me. So even though it might be like, well, it’s just a pdf, we’ll make it the best PDF they’ve ever downloaded, but it is.

[00:30:27] So basically we find one problem and we give them five points and we say, this is how I can help you with my five points. Okay. So it’s like and one thing that actually always comes up and you know, this podcast has gone for hours, by the way, cuz I can talk about this for literally hours.

[00:30:42] Sarah: Well, they’ll, they’ll just have to come to your

[00:30:44] Teresa: course, you know, well love, like, it’s not a sales message, but that’s, that’s what it’s

[00:30:49] But like, so one of the things we talk about is sometimes the problem that they’ve got. So let’s say I am a coach that helps people who have got imposter syndrome, let’s say. That was my business. [00:31:00] Well, the problem is, Possible customers or people I can help might not know they’ve got imposter syndrome.

[00:31:08] Mm-hmm. So what they do is five ways to help you get over imposter syndrome. Well, that’s great if I know I’ve got it, but I don’t know I’ve got it. Mm-hmm. So, one thing, and that’s often a mistake, you really choose. So the thing that you need to think about with the lead magnet, with your title, with your, your freebie, and the thing you’re offering them is it needs to sing to them.

[00:31:27] It needs to, they need to read that and go, that’s me. Mm-hmm. . Whereas if I don’t know what that is, if I’ve never heard of the phrase imposter syndrome, but what I might know is my symptoms or what I might know is the problems that I have. So they need to get quite granular with that. So it might be that do you worry that you’re gonna get found out one day question mark if I read that, and whether I knew what in Imposs syndrome was or not, and whether I, you know, thought I had it or not.

[00:31:54] I would read that and go, yeah, that’s me. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . So, but I would only know that and know [00:32:00] that language cause I know my customer really well. So that piece, yeah, that’s

[00:32:04] Sarah: unfortunately, that’s often a problem, especially for coaches, right? Because they’re so into their specialty or into their methods that unfortunately they’re marketing

[00:32:15] Teresa: the method where Yes.

[00:32:16] Yeah. And they’re not talking to the problem. Yeah. And sometimes people are like, yeah, but I don’t wanna be negative. And it’s like, it’s not that you’re being negative, it’s that sometimes the only way, you know. So if you rephrase it and said, you know, do you fear that one day you’ll be found out? I know it sounds negative, but the point is it resonates cuz that’s the kind of thing I might say.

[00:32:38] And what’s quite nice for me and you, , I’ve always kind of hoped and thought that this is my superpower, is I’m able to think about who their customer might be and what their customer might say. And sometimes I am a potential customer. Yeah. Sometimes I’d be like, well actually I would never say that. This is what I would say.

[00:32:55] Yeah. And it, it inevitably is not the same language because like you said, [00:33:00] when you are an expert in your world, in your field, you are gonna use the right terms. You are gonna think of, like you said, the solution. And the solution is, you know, you’ve got imposter syndrome and I’ve got tools to help you with imposter syndrome.

[00:33:12] Well, I don’t know. I’ve got that. Mm-hmm . So that’s the first thing. Really understanding that customer is key. Coming up with something that is genuinely going to help them, that is genuinely going to fix their problem is the next thing. So like I said, we know downloads can be, excuse me, I’m gonna cough.

[00:33:29] I’m so sorry. Yeah. I could feel it building. And I, a sneeze coming as well. I’m so sorry. I never do. That’s fine.

[00:33:40] Is it gone all good, ? I think so. Hope so. Sorry, sorry, sorry. So like I said, you wanna create that lead magnet, that freebie that is really good quality. So when they get it, it actually gives them something. Don’t be scared about giving away too good of stuff. You’re talking basics. Okay. So you’re not talking like your secret source or your method or your whole, like this is how to do [00:34:00] it, start to finish, but the stuff you’re telling them is really good stuff.

[00:34:04] So when we’re in the process, the very first thing they do is create that thing and we do it in you know, something like Canva or Adobe Express, and they get all the templates and basically they make it look nice and they create this P D F that they’ve got that they can give someone. Then what we do, And we do everything to get it ready before we go into tech.

[00:34:26] Cuz that’s the other thing, like I said, once you get into tech, you don’t wanna then go, you’re halfway through a process, you have to go and write some stuff and by the time you come back you’re like, I can’t remember where I was or what I was doing. So then what you’re going to do from that point is you’re gonna think about the words that you want to be on your signup page.

[00:34:42] So the page that is the landing page where someone goes and goes, yes, I would like that. So based on what you’ve written, you write some words on that and there’s a format to it and, and there’s a way you can do it. But basically you’re saying to them, if you have problems with this, this, this, this, or if you’re struggling with this, this, this, this.

[00:34:58] If you find you are this, this, [00:35:00] this, then. In this download, I’m gonna help you with this, this, this. So then you’ve got the copy for that and we make sure we’ve got some images as well. So within the template thing, we create social images and we create images for the landing page. Then you want to start writing your emails that you’re going to send to them.

[00:35:16] Cuz the minute they download that, you are gonna want to automate some emails. And I think the word automation scares people. It’s really not that difficult. It’s like when they opt in this form, send them this thing, wait a day, send them this thing, wait two days, send them this thing. So then what we do is we write all our emails and, and again there’s like templates to follow and that sort of format.

[00:35:37] And we got our, our titles, our subject lines, we’ve got our preview text, they’ve got our emails. So basically we have everything ready to roll. Before we go to the tech. So they literally have a Google doc of all their stuff. They have their images, they have their P D F, they have the pictures, the lot and things like as well.

[00:35:57] There might be a little blurb about who you are and what [00:36:00] makes you an expert. So then what we do is when we go to the system, the thing that we start with is the, well, you can do a couple of things, but depending on what system you’re using and which order it goes in. Because again, it’s all different.

[00:36:15] But normally you’d build a thank you page first. And the thank you page is a really simple page that acknowledges the fact that they’ve opted in. And it might tell them things like, make sure you check your spam cuz it might have gone in there. And if you don’t get it, email us here. Or if you know you haven’t found it, if you wanna link to something else on that page, you can.

[00:36:32] You could always say, go and take a look at my website, or I wrote a blog on this, or whatever it is. But normally, and again, when getting started, don’t over confuse yourself just. , a plain thank you page that has your logo and a nice image or whatever on it in your font saying Thank you. It’s on its way.

[00:36:47] And don’t forget to shake your junk. So that’s on the thank you page. So we’d build that first. Then what we’d probably build next is the email sequence. And again, it can depend on different systems, but you’d need to build that [00:37:00] sequence. So basically this is an automation, and you would say, okay, I want to create an automation.

[00:37:05] And you might put the trigger in there. You might put the trigger somewhere else. Again, this is where different systems differ. Depends on the tool. Yeah, it does. But basically you are saying, okay when this thing happens, I want you to, and it can be like, so active campaign. It could be a tag. So when this tag is added, start this and you can decide the tag.

[00:37:25] And, and we normally have decided the tag by this point. , you would start the automation. When someone gets this tag, start this thing and it’d like send them an email immediately. And then you put in your copy and your text of the email. The other thing you’re gonna need to do is link to the thing that they’ve got and things like, the one key thing, and I saw this the other day with someone, is I opted in for their thing and they had a huge email and the link was hidden.

[00:37:51] Well, they say hidden, but it was amongst a lot of texts of the thing. I actually was trying to die in load. And then there was about another four or five links of various different other things they were trying to tell me [00:38:00] to do. And a 20% off discount if I bought my first thing. And it’s like, we too much, too much do too much.

[00:38:06] Because then again, you’re jumping straight into the sale. And again, that’s not humane. That’s not, we are coming from a point of serving. We’re coming from a point going, I know you struggle with this and I can help because that’s what I do and that’s what I’m brilliant at. Mm-hmm. And yes, of course we all need to be paid.

[00:38:24] And of course there are paid things that you can have. But at that point, that’s too early. So the first email is just an email that says, here you go. There’s your thing. Like you asked for it. There it is. And I think on the copy it normally says something like, and I’ll be in touch in a couple of days to let you see how you got on.

[00:38:44] And again, one thing I find, especially with a brand new sequence of someone brand new, tell them what to expect. Mm-hmm. . Okay. So in that first email, say, I’ll be back in touch tomorrow, or I’ll be back in touch in two days, so that when your email does fall into their inbox, they’re not gonna think, oh, [00:39:00] she’s hounding me.

[00:39:01] Mm-hmm. , because I’ve already told you that this is what’s going to happen. One thing

[00:39:05] Sarah: that I really like doing is using numbers and brackets. So one out of five and then they know, okay, this is the first emails, then there’s gonna be four more. And so I use that in all the subject lines and people really like it.

[00:39:19] I use that also in like mini-series where I’m like, I’m gonna be talking about this topic over five emails. Mm-hmm. , you know that these are coming, right? Yes. So I guess especially in an onboarding series, that would be really helpful

[00:39:32] Teresa: for people that like, yes, super helpful. It’s a great idea. And like you said, so, and, and I think as well, people are, I know people are struggle with marketing and they really like, you know, they think it’s sleazy and slimy and horrible, but as long as people know what to expect from you, it’s when they’re caught off guard.

[00:39:50] It’s when you’ve said to them, I’m gonna email you once a week, or I’m gonna email you once a month and then you send five in two days. Like, that’s not okay. That’s not. [00:40:00] Alright to do, right? So it’s about being really honest and going, this is what I’m going to do. And thinking as well as serving. So I often say, when I generally talk about emails, like you have to ask yourself, who cares you well with anything we do?

[00:40:15] Who cares? Like am I giving them something in that email that they’re going to want to read? Am I giving them something that is going to be of value to them? Because if all I’m doing is telling them to buy my stuff, that is of no value to them. Now if I’m telling them a story that will give them a lesson or a learning, and then at the end of that email I say, and actually if you want more help with this, I can, and here’s how you can get that help, then that’s different.

[00:40:41] So

[00:40:41] Sarah: I think that’s important to mention as well, because I know a lot of my clients. And, and I’m sure maybe yours as well. We, we have heart-centered clients and so they’re actually, they already know that they want to serve, right? Yes. But it’s the actual selling piece that’s kind of difficult. And [00:41:00] so just this morning a client said to me that her subscribers told her they don’t want more than one message per month.

[00:41:06] And I said, I understand that. And that is good that you ask what they want, but you also need to look out for yourself because you are running a business. And so you don’t just want to only serve and share great content, you still also need to sell. That’s why they are on your email list. So it’s finding that balance,

[00:41:26] Teresa: right?

[00:41:27] It is, it is. And, and like you said, it. For me, again, asking that question is lovely. And I asked it funnily enough just the other day, but I sent three emails a week. Yeah. So, and I asked them, and I said to them, I’m gonna slow down in August. Cause obviously August is our UK summer holiday and I have a daughter and a stepson and you know, hopefully might take a little bit time off at some point.

[00:41:48] But for me I was like, so I’m probably gonna send like two emails a week this time. And I, and then, so I said, actually, drop me an email back and let me know what you think about that. And I’ve had people in the past go, I’d like less [00:42:00] and, and as long as I’m consistent, as long as I told them this is what it’s going to be, and I communicate with them and I am thinking of doing less, I’m thinking of maybe just doing two a week on a Wednesday and a Thursday and I will email them going, I’ve been having a think and I think this is what I’m gonna do and this is why I’m gonna do it.

[00:42:16] And, you know, so I think it’s that communication and again, treating people like they’re real humans. Yeah. Because they are real humans.

[00:42:23] Sarah: I think what people get scared because they, the tech is involved and they feel like, Okay, so now this is, you know, the techy part of the business. Yeah. Where nice. It’s not, you can still be yourself in these emails and, and Yeah.

[00:42:37] Even though you’re talking to many people, you’re still talking as if you were talking just to one

[00:42:43] Teresa: person. I write every email as if I’m talking to one person. Yeah. And, and I personally reply to everyone that responds. Mm-hmm. And I ask them to respond. Mm-hmm. And whether that takes me 20 minutes or three days, I’m the one that responds.

[00:42:58] And my team know that they [00:43:00] leave those emails alone because that, and again, I don’t have a copywriter. Right. My emails, I write them and I joke that they’re probably, they’re not award-winning and there’s gonna be typos in them. And, and kind of, I’m sorry, but I’m not, because it’s like, that’s not my zone of genius writing is not necessarily my zone of genius, however, The authenticity of it and the fact of, you want to hear from me so you are going to hear from me.

[00:43:24] You are not going to hear from a copywriter who has relayed a story that I’ve told them. So again, treating it as an additional bit of content, you know, another way to communicate with your audience, but also having that two-way thing and asking them and, and including them in the decision, I think is great.

[00:43:42] I do think though, once a month is not enough, nowhere near enough, because like if I said to someone post on social media once a month, and this is the analogy I always give when I get them in the course to go right, how often are you gonna email ’em? What day? And, and initially all of them would go probably once a month.

[00:43:59] And then I say to [00:44:00] them, imagine just posting on Instagram 12 times a year. What do you think that would do for the business? Do you think that would mean you get good business? No, of course it wouldn’t. And we need to look at emails in a similar way, so, again, it’s more about what you’re putting in the email than the frequency of the email.

[00:44:17] Mm-hmm. . So yeah, so, so we do the sequence emails, we’ve got digress there. I digressed us. But we do the sequence emails and like I said, the first one is deliver the thing. The second one might be if they’re brand new to you, it might be a who you are or normally. The second one for me is, okay, so you had this thing cuz you were struggling.

[00:44:34] Have you seen this? So it might be, here’s a podcast I did about it. Here’s an article I wrote on it. Here’s a video I’ve done on it, but it’s helping them further. And then from that point you might introduce yourself, you might explain more about your, what you do, you might then, and some of my email sequences on email, four or five.

[00:44:52] But again, you don’t have to do this from day one. It gives ’em a video of something that’s particularly. Pertinent to what they’ve downloaded or a [00:45:00] sneak peek into the membership because actually they downloaded a mindset thing and the membership has mindset calls in it. And then, because I have products at the end of it, I might go, if you’re interested, actually you might wanna join the club or you might wanna have a look at the club.

[00:45:13] And then my last email will say and, and it, this is only cause I’m leading into products that, or a service or whatever. If you are not, then you don’t do this. But my last email says, you’re not ready. No worries. So basically as well, and the automation is very cool, but I don’t teach this. I can teach it to someone who asks, but this is not what I would tell you to get started with.

[00:45:31] So for instance, in my funnel, in active campaign, at the end of every email, I have a section in the, in the process that says, did they sign up to the club? If they did, don’t send them anything else. If they didn’t send them this, did they sign up to the club? If they didn’t, don’t send them anything else.

[00:45:47] If they did, if if they did, don’t send ’em anything else. They didn’t. And that’s what I send them. No worries. That’s fine. I see. And that’s exactly the

[00:45:54] Sarah: thing. You can’t do it Cajabi like

[00:45:56] Teresa: none of this is no, no, no, it’s not right. No. [00:46:00] Yeah. You need a system. And I think, I think. , fairly confident. You can do an element of that in Malechi not Malechi Mailer light

[00:46:09] I told you I’d get confused. Yeah, there is an element of that. You can do a mailer light, but you can’t do that in Kajabi, which is why again, when switch back, I can afford it. I switched back. Yeah. But again, you know, even saying to at the end, no worries. I’ve offered you this thing. I think it could be cool, but you don’t want it.

[00:46:24] And because I very much believe in humane marketing, I don’t do close and open on stuff unless it’s a course, like build My List where I work with you along it, which means I obviously have to have an intake cuz we all start at the same point. But other than that, my membership is always open, so I just really nicely say at the end, no worries, I’m always here and now you’re gonna start getting my regular emails, which, and I tell them what the deal is with the regular emails.

[00:46:48] So, so those things. That kind of un onboarding is, is kinda key. So you need all those emails written, which they already are by this point, and then you put them into your system. So then you’ve got an automation, you’ve got a thank you page, [00:47:00] you’ve probably got a tag. And then the next thing we go in and do is probably set up the form again, depending on what system you’re in.

[00:47:06] So we set up the form first, because on a landing page, you’re gonna need to put the form in it, but you can’t set up the form without having stuff to link to it because it’ll say, well, what do you want to do with this form? And if you haven’t got a like, okay, once they filled in the form, go to this thank you page.

[00:47:19] Or once they filled in the form, subscribe them to this automation. So that’s why we’re kind of working backwards and up. So then we do the form bit. And then once we’ve done the form bit, we then build the landing page. And then once we’ve done the landing page, all the social media posts are already written, already done.

[00:47:36] So it should be as easy as. So then you’ll have the link for your landing page. And then it should be as easy as, here’s your social media post that you’ve already created. Shove the link in there when they click through to it. The rest should be absolutely fine. And then obviously we do an element of testing.

[00:47:51] I test it, they test it, make sure everything looks right, reads right, and all that sort of good stuff. But yeah, it’s not where the process that we go through as the [00:48:00] consumer is we see a social media post. We go through to a landing page, we put in a form, we then go to a thank you page. We then get an email.

[00:48:09] We don’t create it in the same process because that’s not the process that’s easy enough for us. Yeah. So, yeah. And I know it sounds big. It does

[00:48:18] Sarah: sound right. Overwhelming when you hear it like that. Yeah. But it, it’s like anything, it’s definitely like Marie Felia would say it’s figure outable and once you have figured it out the first time, you can just rinse and repeat.

[00:48:32] That’s it. The system and the process. And you will come up with different opt-ins and free.

[00:48:37] Teresa: Yeah, and I had, and, and again, I promise you, I never came on here to go buy my thing. But had an amazing testimonial. The day I say testimony she just told me, but it was still amazing. One of my members bought Build My List cuz like I said, it’s not included in the membership cause it’s a very specific and it’s followed me along.

[00:48:53] So like I said, we’ll literally go, has everybody done this now? Let me see it. Has it look yet great? Right once to the next thing. Because I know people need [00:49:00] that gain ability, but she had done the course the very first time I ran it and she actually hadn’t been as present in the course as she wanted to because she was doing a tax return or something at the time and the timing just wasn’t right for her.

[00:49:13] And she actually got one of her team to go through and do the work, so. Mm-hmm. , they actually went in and did the stuff. and they did it and she obviously hadn’t done it. And so then it comes a year later and she decides she needs a new lead magnet and cuz the other one had been performing well, but obviously it’s nice to have a few, and again, I explain about, you know, why you would want different ones for different things.

[00:49:35] And so she decided she wants a new one and she went back to the course and went through the lessons and came on one of my calls and was. I’ve done it, , I’ve just done it and, and like I literally just went back and, and did exactly what you said and I’ve done another one. And she was like, that’s amazing.

[00:49:53] And then she’s doing another one. And it’s like, that’s the point, like by going through it with you like [00:50:00] that. And even when I’m talking about different systems, the way I try and explain, and obviously you know, you have different systems to choose from, but the way I try to explain it is if you understand what you are trying to do or what you need to do, even if you then go to a different system, you know, okay, I need a page or a landing page, which might be called a website on some things.

[00:50:21] Or it might be called a site, or it might be called a page, or it might be called a landing page and I need some kind of form or opt-in or pop in, pop up. So again, where’s that gonna be? And I need another page for a thank you page, and I need some kind of automation and I need something to trigger it. So even if you’re moving and changing, The, like you said, the idea for me is I teach you the understanding of it and then you can rinse and repeat it.

[00:50:44] Mm-hmm. , because, I dunno about you, Sarah. One of the things I found in the online space and, and talking of humane marketing and doing the right thing for our customers is, and one thing that I’ve been complimented on, which is lovely, is that I don’t set my members [00:51:00] up on my students up to always need me.

[00:51:02] Mm-hmm. , my aim is to give them the tools and the strategies and it’s the empowerment for the empowerment Exactly. To do it themselves again. Yeah. Rather than, okay, I’m gonna give you so much and then, you know, if you want the rest, you’re gonna have to come and do this, and do this and do this. Right. It. No, I am so over the moon and she just ha so happens to also be a member as well.

[00:51:25] But even, and I, and funnily enough, when I was doing the challenge, I re-interviewed some of the past member some of the past students. And again, they said exactly the same. They were like, I did another one and I did another one. And the other thing that’s really lovely actually is I have some marketers come to me and say, can I use it for clients?

[00:51:41] And I’m like, if you are, you can come and learn the skill and learn the process and then offer that as a service. And then you can now be, I can create your opt-in, I can set up your email and absolutely fine. You can use my tools and my strategies and my stuff. That is fine if, as long as that’s giving you another skill [00:52:00] and you are obviously not selling the corso, as long as you’re using the things, that’s fine.

[00:52:04] And, but I love that. I love that we empower people to, to do those things so they don’t have to come back to me and go, I’m gonna have to join again cuz I can’t remember how to do it.

[00:52:13] Sarah: Yeah, I, I just had my first group in the Humane Marketing Circle go through my book, the marketing, like we’re human and they organized everything themselves.

[00:52:24] So basically it’s member organized and they got together, you know, amazing during three sessions, worked through my workbooks that are available for free. And so I’m like, this is exactly what we need. You know, we don’t need more gurus. We need people to get empowered and then do it themselves. Just get the tools and then do it themselves.

[00:52:46] And you are so right. And I think, yeah, this conversation here has been so helpful because people are like, Okay. I’m getting the big picture and I’m really getting the details and, and, and maybe they can just, you know, do it themselves now that, that [00:53:00] would

[00:53:00] Teresa: be great. And for summits, right? More than enough on the challenge.

[00:53:04] I had a number of people, in fact, a huge percentage of people that we talked about, you know, this is how you come up with an idea. These are sort of things that I consider and then they’d come to. , the coaching call I did alongside it. And then the next day they’re like, I’ve created it. Yeah. And I’m like, that’s amazing.

[00:53:19] Awesome. Yeah. And then, and I had actually, and I’d never had this before, but I had two people actually within the five days create the thing and then they got bit stuck with the tech. Cuz obviously I can only go into so much on a challenge about that. But then they post in the group and I was like, have you changed up to that?

[00:53:35] Do this to this? And they were like, I can’t honestly believe you’re helping me do this. Like Yeah. But you’ve come into the challenge trying to achieve something and you are working really hard to achieve it. Why wouldn’t I help you to achieve it? Mm-hmm. Yes. I know I have a course that teaches all this, but you are so far ahead already.

[00:53:51] Yeah. And I would’ve literally left you at the last hurdle. And, and

[00:53:55] Sarah: basically they only needed that missing piece and Yeah.

[00:53:58] Teresa: Yeah. And if I hadn. [00:54:00] Thought about them in the way I do and treat my audience the way I do. I’d been like, well that’s fine cuz that’s in the course. So if you wanna buy the course, it looks there to do that.

[00:54:07] And it was like, no, this woman and the woman I was talking about, she has a young child. It was like an 18 month old and it was like, I know how difficult it was for you to turn up and go through the challenge because of how busy you are and managing the child and all this, and the fact that you’ve done all this.

[00:54:23] and, and it was really early in the morning, and I don’t, I normally, I get up and I have a morning routine and I don’t look at my phone straight away. But for whatever reason, I sat in bed and I was looking at my phone and that message came up. So she’d obviously got up before a child or a child had woken her up or whatever, and gone back to sleep.

[00:54:38] So she’s messaging me and it was like, I don’t know, six feet in the morning and I’m like, do this. And then she came back, I’m stuck on this. Try that. Okay, that works. Okay, you need to change this. And at the end of it, she was like, I can’t believe. Like, but you’ve just done that. And it’s, and like I said, why wouldn’t I?

[00:54:51] Mm-hmm. , you know, I’m setting people up to succeed, not to need me and buy my stuff if they don’t need to.

[00:54:57] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Ah, this [00:55:00] has been wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing so much wisdom and, and tackling the tech, because , I think, yeah, it really, people are gonna take a lot from that. If, if you would add one last tip in terms of, you know, maybe also the content, how to make it humane, you know, that idea of how do I not, because maybe they’re also signed up to all these other emails, and quite frankly, a lot of them are still very salesy.

[00:55:30] Mm-hmm. . And so how do I, because I talk a lot of hu marketing, like we’re human. So how do I bring the human into these emails? What

[00:55:39] Teresa: would you say? You write them. Mm-hmm. . It’s your voice. It’s you people wanna hear from, so I think you and I know, you know, people wanna create nice copy that is inspiring and this, that, and the other.

[00:55:53] I was gonna say, I suppose when you’re selling me, you could still use copywriter, but No, I don’t. I don’t, I don’t ever use a copywriter, so I’m very [00:56:00] honest about, I set them up correctly in the fact of I tell them what’s coming so I don’t surprise them with suddenly all these emails. Even when I’m in a sales period or I’m trying to promote something, I might only still send one or two extra emails.

[00:56:14] I don’t go overboard and suddenly send 50 in, you know, whatever. The other key thing is to consistently email them and whether that consistency looks like every other week or every week or three times a week, consistently email them. There is some, there’s one person in my world who’s very big and I do not ever hear from them unless they’re selling.

[00:56:35] Mm-hmm. And literally it’s like not a single email. And then suddenly they’ll drop into my inbox and I think, what are you selling? Mm-hmm. And it’s coming into open door start, you know, it’s like open carts coming soon, challenges coming soon because I know you’re about to sell something cuz you’ll suddenly start emailing me.

[00:56:50] Well that. That, that basically just tells me you are using your email list to sell right now. We know it’s a very effective way to sell, but I don’t wanna just be sold to [00:57:00] So con, the consistency is more about proving to your community that you care about them. Mm-hmm. . So like I said, be consistent whether you’ve got something to sell, not people think they’ve never got something to say, you’ve always got something to say, have a conversation.

[00:57:14] Some of the best emails I’ve had replies to, and I mean replies not sales, cuz they’re, the best emails I’ve had are replies are about like stories that I’ve told or something that’s happened or some vulnerability. You know, I, I was very vulnerable a few years about when my mom passed away and I hadn’t emailed them for two weeks and I used to email once a week.

[00:57:32] Then I’d emailed ’em on a Wednesday and I hadn’t emailed them for two weeks and I emailed them going, you might be wondering where I’ve been and I’m really sorry cuz when I commit to something I really want to. and I explained that unfortunately my mom had passed away fairly suddenly. And you know, I just needed to take a couple of weeks just to like, you know, but I’m back, I’m still gonna take it easy, but I will commit back to my one email a week.

[00:57:54] And the flood of emails back I had was huge. That wasn’t selling, that wasn’t [00:58:00] adding value, that was just being me and being human, right? And, and I guess telling a story that other people are very likely to have been through or will go through and telling them about how I was dealing as a business owner, you know?

[00:58:15] So I guess I was adding value in a way, but it was never like, Hey, am I gonna add value in this email? So I think the consistency, the thinking of them, the giving them value, thinking of what are they gonna get from it? And even if they just walk away and think, I love your emails, they’re ace. Like, that’s fine.

[00:58:29] Not always thinking of how you’re gonna sell to them in an email, but adding that value. I think that’s the key bit. And. asking for replies. I always ask for replies if you can personalize it. And again, active campaign, you can do some very cool things, which is good, but not on the early ones. So I don’t talk about this with people, but you know, if you can personalize it, that’s cool.

[00:58:49] But that’s still an automation, that’s still a system. So, you know, if someone replies, I personally reply back, like even if they’re like, oh, this is great, thanks. And I just look great. Cheers. You know, even [00:59:00] if it’s like three words back, I make sure I respond because they’ve gone the effort to do that to you.

[00:59:05] So see it as another form of way of communicating with them. It’s not one way, it’s not you shouting at them, it’s, it’s a conversation and you want people to have that conversation with you. Yeah. Try not to. Clickbait or spammy or you know, and be human. It’s funny, , I am, I have just made a change in my membership and I was thinking about how I’m gonna email it.

[00:59:29] I’m gonna be really honest as I am and tell them that something didn’t work and I’ve, I’ve stopped it and I’m, this is why it didn’t work and this is why I’ve stopped it. And I was thinking about what would I actually write in the subject line. I don’t know why I was giving this so much thought, but anyway.

[00:59:44] And I thought to myself, what if I wrote, I’m closing the club? And then, because that’s not a lie cuz I’m closing a part of the club, but I’m not closing my club. And then I thought, oh, that is so spammy. But then me being me, I thought, I would literally write, well that caught your [01:00:00] attention, didn’t it? like, because again, I’m, I’m being human.

[01:00:04] So like, I, you know, and I would probably say that to someone. I’d probably be like, oh, this is happening. And they’d be like, what? Like, yeah, not really, it’s like this, but I’m not lying, but. , I would have that kind of funny conversation in the actual email. Mm-hmm. . So again, think about that. Think about,

[01:00:18] Sarah: so having the, what I hear you say is like, have the marketing brain on mm-hmm.

[01:00:23] obviously, you’re not gonna go into a very boring subject line,

[01:00:27] Teresa: right? No, no,

[01:00:28] Sarah: no. People, yes, they do. Open or not your email. Yes. Depending on the subject line, but then still be transparent and honest when you do yeah. When you do write about yes. Something that is happening or not. The other thing, I, I wanna bring it up because I, I don’t know if you seen it on your LinkedIn post you just posted about the door open or door closed, or cars cart open or, or.

[01:00:53] I just wanna give you kind of another perspective, because I’ve been thinking about mm-hmm. , this whole thing with o open cart, [01:01:00] close cart as well. And, and you’re right, it is kind of like, okay, let’s use this urgency and, you know, spam people and you can only buy now. And so I, I’ve given this a lot of thought in, in the humane marketing perspective, and then I thought, you know what, it’s a given fact.

[01:01:17] Yes. People sometimes do need some kind of encouragement to Yes. You know, buy, we know that that’s a proven fact. Yeah. What does that mean for me? How do I want to communicate about these, the, these open slots throughout the year? And then I was also thinking about my existing members. I’m like, actually, I do like the fact that for three months I have the full focus only on my existing members.

[01:01:45] Right? Yeah. There’s not new people always joining. It’s like, okay, we have a window that is open. And so really, I think it’s, it’s not so much about the techniques, and that’s what I talk about in humane marketing. It’s, it’s about, it’s the

[01:01:57] Teresa: motivation. Yeah. Yeah. It’s behind, behind what you are [01:02:00] doing. Yeah.

[01:02:00] Yeah. It’s

[01:02:01] Sarah: like, okay, this is how I’m, that’s what I talk about, the early bird price offer as well. Mm-hmm. , the intentions is not, oh, let me push you to buy now. It’s not like, I would would love to give you this offer. Reduced price because it helps you. It also helps me, frankly because then I know, yes, I already have members or people,

[01:02:21] Teresa: participants, right.

[01:02:23] That’s the other thing. It’s about speaking the truth behind this stuff. Yeah, and that is something I have done a lot more recently, as in past six, 12 months, and even to the point where, You know, I’ve got I’ve got an email going out. I, I batch my emails. That’s the only way I can send through a week, obviously.

[01:02:41] Cause I, I send a lot, but I batch my emails for next week and next week I’m talking about one of my amazing friends who has a course. And it’s a really good course and I’ve done it. And it’s about bringing on a team member. And I have a team and she’s just a genius in it. She’s so, so good. But one of the things I say, so in the [01:03:00] first email, I’m like, if you’re looking for a team, this is good.

[01:03:01] Whatever, whatever. But then I say to them as you know, I don’t talk about affiliates often. I don’t do affiliates often. So my next email is all about my thoughts on affiliate marketing. Mm-hmm. . And I’m like, okay. In principle, it’s great. And it’s, this is kind of what you’re saying, the principle of it is not flawed, it’s how people have then used that principle.

[01:03:21] Exactly. So I was saying to em, you know, having someone recommend something that they’ve done is a really good marketing tool. And it’s excellent because no one, you know, it’s like with all of us, you know, someone, I love Jim, so someone will go, oh, if you tried so and so, it’s amazing. Well thank you very much.

[01:03:37] You know, that is, it’s not affiliate marketing, they’re not getting paid for it. But that is a recommendation and that’s what affiliate marketing can be. But the problem comes where, and again, I know a few people who do this, where basically they flog their audience like, like they are just a cash cow. So they are an affiliate for anything and everything.

[01:03:55] And also the way in which they sell the affiliate thing is, . [01:04:00] You need this. You have to have it. This is crucial. This is how if you look at me and you think I’m a success, you need to do the same cuz you won’t be a success without it. It’s all the messaging around it and the frequency in which they do it.

[01:04:12] So it’s, it’s a really weirdly contrasting email because I’m one breath, I’m going. . Okay. This is brilliant about affiliate marketing. Marketing. This is not, I’m not happy about that. I am very precious about my audience the same way as I’m very precious about my podcast and I’m, and about what I deliver.

[01:04:30] So I’m super precious about emailing you and I’m not willing to like bombard you with sales emails cause I don’t think that’s right. However, my lovely friend Jen, is doing this course and it is amazing. Oh, and again, one of the other things I talk about is I said, do you know how much people get paid for affiliate stuff?

[01:04:46] it’s not small money. Some of these people are getting like eight, 800 to a thousand dollars per student. Yeah. You know, so them coming across going, you’ve gotta buy it because of X, Y, Z. There’s a real strong motivation as to why they’re saying that.

[01:04:59] Sarah: Of [01:05:00] course. And then they started creating their own offer.

[01:05:03] You know, if you buy it, then I’ll add this sometimes this, this, this. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You, we need to do a session just on

[01:05:09] Teresa: affiliate marketing. We should, honestly, I could talk about this stuff so much, but, so, but again, so in, in my email, I’ve written a very honest educational, because I’ve told them about affiliate marketing and why it’s good, how not to do it, and.

[01:05:24] Fyi, just as a little bit of a heads up, next time someone is handing you to buy something, just work out what I know, why, how much they’re making. Oh, they might be getting for that. And then I say, but this course is excellent and Jen is excellent and she’s doing a free three day free three day workshop.

[01:05:39] And by all means, go along to it and take what she has to say and it’s great and there is no pressure for you to buy. And that will be, so that will be email number two I’ve sent about her course. And then when her car opens, I’ll send another email. But again, it’ll be like, this is cool. If you are in this situation and you need help, this will help.[01:06:00]

[01:06:00] But like, I’m not gonna tell you that it changed my world and I can’t live without it. It was an excellent course. But of course, you know, we can all live without stuff, can’t we?

[01:06:10] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s just all about, I. Humane marketing my role. I see also shining a light on all of these mm-hmm. Things and that’s why I have conversations like this.

[01:06:22] Yeah. Because people don’t know, you know? No. They don’t know that there are people who call themselves affiliate marketers and they’re making Yeah. In the thousands. So much money.

[01:06:32] Teresa: Yeah. So much money. And again, it’s like, you know, there are some people that I’ve, I’ve worked with in the past and, and again, it’s funny how, I dunno about you, when you went through the process of coming into the more humane marketing, that suddenly you realize that some of the people you hung around with, or some of the people that you bought from, or some of the people that you respected and learnt from.

[01:06:52] actually are the people now you’re trying to avoid. Yeah. And, and there’s some people in particular that literally will go mad [01:07:00] on email marketing when they’ve got something to sell, but they’re selling everyone’s course and everyone’s thing because they’ve bought it and now they’re an affiliate for everything and they’re making a lot of money off the back of their audience.

[01:07:11] And their audience isn’t necessarily, and I know it’s not up for us to decide, but you know, some of this stuff is not appropriate to their audience. Some of this stuff is, they’ll narrow the

[01:07:21] Sarah: budget, their success because they’re, yeah,

[01:07:24] Teresa: they’re, because that’s not what they’re meant to be doing. And if they just focused on the thing they were doing, it would get their success.

[01:07:29] But of course, their, their guru, their expert has told them that they have to have this thing, so they’re buying. and it’s a waste. And whereas if you care about your audience, you would offer it, that’s fine. Not, not that, not to offer it, but then you’d be realistic. And I, I am always about should, should I buy this?

[01:07:51] Like even my own course, you know, even the bill, my list course, I had someone come to me and said, should I buy it? And I went, no, because you’ve done loans and sometimes

[01:07:58] Sarah: if they’re ready or if they’re [01:08:00] already past

[01:08:00] Teresa: that level, I’ll cut. She kind of was. And I said, you know what wrote better for you actually is, you know, and again I’m not using the sales status but my club, you need the next level.

[01:08:10] And actually you could come and ask me questions on a coaching call that could be good. Mm-hmm. , but again, no pressure. Mm-hmm. . And I do think sometimes I dunno about you. So like sometimes I do think I’m cutting off my nose, spite my face in some ways and thinking, you know, there is a reason all this stuff works.

[01:08:25] But I just hope and pray that honesty and integrity will, you know, purvey and. I’ll come out with it at the end of it, .

[01:08:36] Sarah: If anything, we’ll have good karma and they won’t. We will .

[01:08:40] Teresa: We’ll, you are right. We are right. We’ll walk away with Yeah. I love it. I love it. Amazing.

[01:08:45] Sarah: Please do share, Theresa, where people can find out more about you and of course the, the course or, or that maybe that you have another challenge as well.

[01:08:56] So,

[01:08:56] Teresa: It’s, yeah. So you can come to tru heath and everything will [01:09:00] be on there. If you wanna check out, build My List, that’s what the course is called. It’s slash build my list. Or come and DM me on Instagram. I’m there most often. I’m on every platform, but I’m there most often.

[01:09:10] And I love a conversation. So please come and say hi.

[01:09:13] Sarah: Wonderful. And I have one last question and that is, what are you grateful for today, this week?

[01:09:19] Teresa: Oh, my word so much. So, so much. I practice gratitude all the time. I’m grateful for the fact that I. Have my own business, that I am my own boss, and that after this interview, I’m gonna go and sit outside in the sun for half an hour because I can, because the sun’s shining and it’s beautiful and I love it.

[01:09:41] And I’m gonna wander around my garden where all my vegetables are growing, which I, again, I am crazy grateful for. And enjoy my garden for half an hour before my house gets busier and everyone comes home. So that’s what I’m grateful for.

[01:09:52] Sarah: Wonderful. This has been absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for coming

[01:09:57] Teresa: on.

[01:09:57] Thanks. Thank you so much, Sarah. I’ve loved it. [01:10:00]

[01:10:01] Sarah: As always, I hope you enjoyed this episode and got a lot of value out of it. And please take a moment to find out more about Theresa and her work at Theresa. Theresa has also has a free mindset hack download, which you can get at Theresa Heath, and you’ll find all the other links on today’s show notes at 1 56 on this beautiful page.

[01:10:35] Besides the links to Theresa’s Social and her website and all of that, you’ll also find a series of free offers, such as my Saturday newsletter, the Humane Business Manifesto, and the free gentle Confidence mini course, as well as my two books, marketing like we’re human and selling like we’re human. And remember, if you’re looking for others who think like you, then why not [01:11:00] join us in the Humane Marketing Circle?

[01:11:02] You can find out more at Thank you so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares for yourself, your clients, and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers, so go be the change you want to see in the world. Speak soon.[01:12:00]

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