Today’s conversation fits under the 7th P, the P of Partnership. I’m talking to Zaynub Parker, a South-Africa-based NLP and Life Coach. Our conversation focused on finding commonalities with Ubuntu, the South-African philosophy that highlights community and unity.
If you have followed my rebranding journey from Gentle marketing to Humane Marketing you know that Ubuntu was one of the words I looked at very closely as it really represents what this new way of marketing means to me. This idea of shared humanity is so deep. And if we understand that we are all one, we’ll approach our businesses in a completely different way that is not just about winning, not just about profits but it’s really about having a common goal.
So I’m so thrilled to be able to talk to Zaynub today. As a woman of color, who grew up in South Africa, she embodies the term Ubuntu through and through.
"I think it does start with yourself. As you change the world, you do need to know who you are." – Zaynub Parker @sarahsantacroce #humanemarketing Share on XIn this episode, you’ll learn about finding commonalities with Ubuntu and…
- The meaning of Ubuntu
- Zaynub’s experience of Ubuntu it in her childhood
- The importance of community
- How Zaynub became the first ever Muslim female air traffic controller in South Africa
- How she today uses Ubuntu in her work to inspire heartfelt leadership and community building through shared visions
- and much more…
Zaynub’s Resources
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Sarah’s Resources
(FREE) Sarah’s One Page Marketing Plan
(FREE) Sarah Suggests Newsletter
(FREE) The Humane Business Manifesto
(FREE) Gentle Confidence Mini-Course
Marketing Like We’re Human – Sarah’s book
Authentic & Fair Pricing Mini-Course
Email Sarah at sarah@sarahsantacroce.com
Thanks for listening!
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Sarah
Imperfect Transcript of the show
I will provide a transcript of the show whenever I can, but please be informed that this is non-edited, so far from perfect. On the positive side you might get a chuckle from reading it, because these robot transcripts are often quite funny 🙂
[00:00:00] Sarah: He’s saying I’m so nice to speak to you. See you on video and talk to you on this conversation today. Thank you, Farah.
[00:00:11] Zaynub: It’s nice. Thank you for having me. It’s nice to see you.
[00:00:15] Sarah: Yeah, it’s beautiful. You and I discussed kind of this topic, very special topic to me, and I know it’s special to you as well that I mentioned in the intro to this episode and it’s all about UHIN too.
[00:00:33] And I Kind of quite work my network to have someone speak about this topic, because obviously I wanted someone who’s really grown up with it. I told you when we spoke before kind of about my rebranding story and how this notion of wound to and shared humanity. Coming up just kind of in a serendipitous way.
[00:00:59] And there’s like, that’s exactly what I want for marketing. I want it to be more about Boone too. So that’s kind of the topic for our conversation today, but I would like to have you share first a bit about your story, your growing up in South Africa and probably. How, you know, a one, two was part of that, maybe unconsciously, because as a child, you don’t know what that, you know, what you’re growing up with, what kind of philosophy, but maybe looking back now, how did that feel?
[00:01:35] And
[00:01:35] Zaynub: yeah, so focus, I grew up in South Africa in the. Eighties. And it was very much as you said, like it has a child that I wasn’t really sure. I didn’t even know what happened to mint and what it was all about. And growing up in the community as we did, I mean, back in the eighties, South Africa was still under per state.
[00:01:56] Right. So communities of, of the different races, we all live. Amongst each other. And I remember now as an adult, I always think back to that was one of the beauties of apartheid is that people have people found Like a shade value system amongst the fact that we’ve all kind of, you know, of the same race, that’s how we would just divide it.
[00:02:21] Right. So that was a blessing in, in all of that, but also so in the late nineties, I lost both my parents and I was orphaned by by the age of 12. And for how my mother came from she’s from a family. And my father’s from an Indian family. And so we basically grew up under, you know, with very big family.
[00:02:45] Community. And my mother’s sister lived with us at the time and my mother’s older sisters, or just decided this isn’t an issue. We’re just going to take these three kids in and they just going to be a part of our extended families now. So her elder sister lived with us and she was by then, she was already a pensioner.
[00:03:05] And she didn’t have, she wasn’t working. She got a government grant every month to look after us and. I think after speaking to you and like, you know, just the parallels with your own story of like, you know, of the hippie culture, it don’t me that we did exactly the same thing. It was one person looking after other people’s children and that happened whether or not people were orphaned or people were or people didn’t have children or they had too many of their own.
[00:03:34] There was this culture of. Everybody just come, everybody’s just welcomed, you know, and, and that was something that was so just, it was just a rule that an unspoken rule. So when my mother’s sister looked after us, it wasn’t, how am I going to do this? It was, I am going to do this. And, and, and I think that’s just how.
[00:04:00] I’ve always seen it as you know, it it’s just, it just is possible when you want it to be possible. So she was one of the people in our community. Other friends, family, friends also just pitched in we were three kids who hadn’t, we weren’t teenagers yet, and we didn’t want for anything. Well, I’m not saying we had everything, but we did, we did have enough you know, everything that the basic needs, we had everything.
[00:04:26] And when I look at, look back at that as an adult, and I think of how people sometimes are both parents and don’t have everything, you know? And so I always consider myself to have been very fortunate to have been. To have been raised in that way with this fit, with the culture to,
[00:04:45] Sarah: I have this picture of just, yeah, one big family, lots of kids.
[00:04:51] You described mainly family relations, but I imagine that also went, you know, above that and like include a neighbors and people who are not blood-related. Right.
[00:05:04] Zaynub: Yeah. Yeah. So actually that is also Very funny because sometimes like we would just call everybody auntie and uncle, we wound up, they were blood related.
[00:05:14] And I have a neighbor who, many neighbors there, many neighbors in our street. And none of them were related, but they were all aunties and uncles who pitched in, who either took us to school, paid for something at school. Supported us when we needed something bought, you know and. And yeah, so, so I think there, there was, there was that sense of sort of a neighborhood.
[00:05:38] Everybody looked out for each other even today. You know, if I go on holiday and I’m going away, I ask my neighbor to watch the house and I don’t get somebody to come in. And how situate, I think the neighbors are, they, they watching, they know who comes and goes. They know who your family is. And that type of thing.
[00:05:57] And, and then also it extended to the schools, you know, so. My mother had formed relationships with our school teachers. They knew who we were. People talk about you to somebody else. So it did, it did extend to more than family. Friends became. Yeah.
[00:06:14] Sarah: Yeah. It’s so funny when you were talking. I just remembered also you know, my hippie childhood and it was the same exact thing.
[00:06:21] Like whenever someone left on vacation, we’ll all, of course you were feeding their pet now, and while they’re in your plants and, you know, getting their mail and everybody had like this little job, oh, I’m going to be doing this now for them. And that was just a given. I was just so normal that we left each other, the key where today I’m lucky I have a neighbor across the street where we can do that.
[00:06:46] And I can even go over there and ask for eggs and, you know, flour, if I don’t have it for my cookies, but it’s, it’s not. Everywhere like that, you know, it is still kinda like mm. You know, kind of trust. And yeah.
[00:07:01] Zaynub: So, and also think not, not only is it not like that everywhere. I don’t think everybody is like that either.
[00:07:08] You know? So I do have one neighbor who, who never asks us to watch her house she’ll go away. And so she probably just doesn’t doesn’t share that. But then the others, the other suicide, I have also noticed that. As some, as somebody who’s grown up with that, wherever I go, I kind of do that. So if I’ve lived away from I’m in Cape town at the moment, but and I’m from Cape town, but when I lived in other provinces within South Africa at always have a neighbor that I’d become familiar with, that I could reach out to if I did need something, which I’ve learned is something special about me.
[00:07:44] Like I do that. I look for those connections with people To get to know them, you know? And so as a result, I think I get that back as well. Yeah.
[00:07:54] Sarah: I also think it’s worth sharing that. It’s it’s sometimes. Hard as well. If you are the one trying to reach out and then kind of find yourself being blocked.
[00:08:08] On the other side, like I see that with myself, with the direct neighbors you know, there’s no openness. And so that is sometimes very hard on me. I feel like our neighbors how come we’re not even sharing, you know, something and, and my mom as well, they moved into. And apartment building now where kind of like everybody does their own thing.
[00:08:30] And I can see some sadness in her sometimes like you know, she’s like, I just wanna. Have their kids over for lunch sometimes. And luckily she now found one family that you can do that with. And if during the lockdown, if she she was so cute, she organized a, kind of a piano concert because she plays the piano.
[00:08:53] And so in the hallway, they just all left their doors open and she played the piano on people who were all sitting in the hallway. Obviously, they couldn’t go to her apartment. And so she’s like, oh, it was so special. Like it really, she misses that connection that it’s very hard to build. The people are just not used to it or open to it.
[00:09:14] Right. Yeah.
[00:09:15] Zaynub: Yeah. And it’s, I think the question is like, you know, Does it stop you? When people are not open to it, because in my experience, sometimes people don’t know how and, and I do have a belief that we all want that. So we do all want to feel connected to someone in some way. And sometimes it just takes somebody to show them Hmm.
[00:09:34] Even, even when I moved back to Cape town, I, I have been, so I had this preconceived idea that I didn’t fit in. Yeah. So when I moved back after being away for, I think, 17 years, I didn’t have any friends. My, most of my friends had moved on. I only had family members and I thought, you know, how am I going to fit back in yet?
[00:09:57] And. I remember joining a cycling group and people, people pointed out that I was very good at establishing a connection with people. If Leslie, I didn’t realize that I’d done that. And that was the first time that I became aware of the fact that this is a, that this is such an important value for me. I do it without even thinking that I’m doing it.
[00:10:21] And the response was very well. And I thought, how do these people fit? That I didn’t know them from anywhere. I didn’t even know them really long. I knew them probably about a month or two and instantly at four. Not deep but meaningful connections. And, and the feedback was very valuable because to them it was something so precious that they, that they commended me for kind of, so the humble me dismissed it, but then the real humble me was I took it, you know, and I was like, that is, that is amazing because I’m giving these people something they didn’t know they wanted and they love having.
[00:11:01] Yeah. And so then I just keep, I just keep at it. Even if somebody doesn’t want it, I won’t hound them. I mean, I’ll leave them, but they know that I’m open. And if they’re not open to connecting, then that’s fine as well. I mean But I still do make that if it cause it’s important to me and I love it, so I have to believe they love it.
[00:11:21] Sarah: Yeah. And it’s, it’s funny that marketing, because you know, the, this is the, the overall overarching umbrella of this podcast is marketing and marketing. Is connection with other people. And so you need to really show that you’re open to this connection because it does, if it doesn’t come over like that.
[00:11:44] Well then yeah, it’s not a two way relationship. It’s just a broadcasting kind of type know, like back in the days, it’s like, here’s why you need to buy this now.
[00:11:59] Zaynub: Yeah. It also like, like you said, you know what marketing, I always get the sense of what’s important to me. Is it important to you? And then if I get the sense, oh, this is important to you.
[00:12:09] I know you’re being sincere and selling me something that you. You feel is important to me, you know? So
[00:12:15] Sarah: yeah, let’s go back to because you, you said you left and then came back, but let’s go to, you know, you, before you left. So you were, how old were you when you left South Africa?
[00:12:31] Zaynub: So I left, I left Cape town first.
[00:12:35] I left Cape town at the age of 20. And then I went to work in Joburg, which was a huge step for somebody in my community because we didn’t leave home before we were married. And I got a lot of resistance for that for being ambitious and breaking a mold kind of. And then I, I worked as an air traffic controller.
[00:12:56] Joe Buck for 10 years while math in general, but itself, but Iran
[00:13:02] Sarah: from Cape town,
[00:13:04] Zaynub: it’s 1,500 kilometers. It’s a two hour flight. Okay. So it’s not very close. And then I went overseas, I went to the middle east in 2010 at the end of 2010. I was 20, so I was 33 years old.
[00:13:21] Sarah: I think you kind of just skipped over a big, important step in your life. Right? You’re like, I just became an air traffic controller, but I remember when we last talked, that was like a big deal back in the days for. You know, a woman to become not just 80 air traffic controller, but you tell us the story.
[00:13:48] Yeah.
[00:13:48] Zaynub: So I think I, that was also the family friend, uncle who too took a vested interest in me. I was, I mean, like I said before, I was often, so there was no, there was no dad or mom affording my tertiary education or even say any education for that matter. So for all intents and purposes, back then, to me, with the exposure that I had, and my family was a very humble of a very humble background.
[00:14:15] We didn’t do things like. Go on to steady S university and all of those things, but I had that huge dream that that was what I was going do. Despite the odds, I didn’t even look at the fact that I didn’t have the financial means to do something. I was just going to do something. And and I got a lot of, I got a lot of reality checks from people like, you know, that this is not going to be.
[00:14:38] And that uncle was a family friend. He, he was like I can support you. Let’s find out what it is that you can do, because, you know, I do think that you destined to go on to do great things and we don’t know what that is, but let’s explore. And I loved that about him because he, in some ways, I think if he dreamed a lot bigger than I did, and I didn’t think of leaving.
[00:15:01] And he found something. And the first thing I said to him was like, oh my gosh, that’s going to take me out of Cape town. And he said, and you come back. It’s fine. You know? And so I felt very comfortable and very secure in the fact that he trusted and he believed in me so much consult went for it. And it wasn’t easy.
[00:15:20] I went on to do and back then it was not. It was 2000. And so South Africa was straight in 19 90, 19 90, 19 94. I think we had the first open election. So people of color was suddenly, you know, allowed to do a lot more than we had before. And so when, when we joined, when I joined the air traffic control, The second intake only that included people of color.
[00:15:48] Everybody else had always only been white south Africans. And so that was a big thing for us to go on to do this. I hadn’t been exposed to aviation in any way. It was, it was a very foreign world to me. You know, the flying stuff and I’d never even been on an air. And I was 23 years old. Yeah. So now I was going to go on and tell pilots what to do.
[00:16:13] I didn’t even know what it involved. So and so then long story short, I qualified as the first Muslim female a traffic controller and. I was at work in a lot of small towns, but that wasn’t very publicized back then, you know? But they didn’t make a big deal of it. Even my own family didn’t make too big a deal of it because I, I had gone on to do something that they didn’t know.
[00:16:38] So I think there was a lot of fear. There was a lot of easiness around the fact that I was suddenly going. Even though they supported me. They didn’t expect that. And so I think to an extent I did feel a little bit let down, but I also understood that this was just, they own insecurity and, and not knowing that was, that was preventing them from all of that.
[00:17:01] And I mean, further down the line more family that more friends that become family support supported me. And so I’ve always. I’ve called him family, if R a M I a lie. And I always think that, you know, these are the people that, that believe in me that support me, that I can turn to when skies are gray and when I’m in a bit of a pickle and stuff like that.
[00:17:26] So and then it was, and then it was the norm for most of us to apply, to go and work overseas because as we as. Became more experienced. We started chasing international experience and career progression and the middle east after desk, lots of money. Cause they, they really did value the south African experience and the culture and our work ethic, you know which was so which at the time I didn’t realize how unique that was.
[00:17:57] That as south Africans, we have. And reputation for being you know, easy to get along with trainable. When we were reliable, we were honest, all of those things, they absolutely loved it. And so we got, we got headhunted by the middle east often, and that’s
[00:18:13] Sarah: why I went to me that, yeah, that these are the qualities that came out of a country and apartheid like that.
[00:18:21] It’s just like mind blowing. Right. And it’s definitely. It goes back to Boone too. I mean, because it could have gone the other way as well. It could have been, you know, qualities like I dunno, like, yeah, the opposite basically, you know, a grudge holding a garage and being angry, like could have been those qualities, but, but no, it was, it was all the boon to qualities really that, that remained and.
[00:18:54] People of South Africa who they are.
[00:18:57] Zaynub: And I think that’s true for a lot of us. I mean, we do have the angry ones. We do have people who, oh, aunt, aunt who haven’t benefited as, as much as some of us have. And I think that that’s usually a mindset. And an outlook. Cause like I said, I mean some of the good things from a part of that was that building of communities, that sense of we are in this together.
[00:19:19] We have each other and not we’re being told we can’t live there because my family was directly affected by the crew period that they were kicked out of a very affluent area or a thriving farm. And they were put into a very low income area. In on the dark side of Cape town and, and they were never bitter about that, you know, so because they had each other, I think that for them, it was a big thing that they had each other.
[00:19:49] Sarah: So coming from, you know, South Africa going to abroad in, in in all these places, what. Maybe by then you kind of knew about UConn too, or at least you knew, you know, how you’ve been brought up. Did you see any of that in the other countries or did you see how you were different and that’s something maybe was missing in these other cultures?
[00:20:14] Zaynub: So what was a lot of cultures? Do people from different countries in the middle east, the Arabs are very much, I feel as well. Ubuntu I am, because we are in, we are because I am, and you are because we are, you know the Arabs had had a very. Welcoming approach where they, you know, they literally take you in to their houses and include you in day parties, as somebody who just walked in to me, that was so welcoming.
[00:20:44] That’s so warm. They do know that we come and we contribute to the economy and to the lifestyles. And so I found a lot of similarities with us as African people that. That they shade, even though the Arabs, I might say this a day correction, but they not very pro African, you know, they don’t want to be associated with African, but they share so many similar values, you know?
[00:21:11] And I think that the whole. As you know, it’s always if you see, I mean, they always a whole bunch of them together. Even the ladies, people, people don’t operate like in singles, really, there it’s very much like, you know, it’s a come one, come all. And I love that about them. I did find with a lot, with a lot more of the Western and European cultures that there was the me and I, and individually.
[00:21:36] Approach, which was very different to how we are, you know even if it came to something as basic as sharing lunches, you’d have enough to share with people. And, and other cultures, they didn’t necessarily do that. I also found a lot of the similarity would be with the other Asian countries, like India and Pakistan and the Filipinos and those, those cultures, we all shared that.
[00:22:00] Yeah, everybody’s welcome. Yeah.
[00:22:03] Sarah: Yeah. And that’s what we need so much more often the business world now as well. Right? Like I, why do we have to do everything on their own as businesses? Why do we have to, you know, kill the competition instead of. Unite and become stronger. And, you know, there’s, I still always feel like there’s there’s enough pie to go around, so we don’t waste
[00:22:28] Zaynub: yeah.
[00:22:28] Kind of crazy that somebody does have to make it.
[00:22:32] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So after you came back home, You you then I guess eventually transitioned out of the era controlling and, and now have gone into something completely different. Tell us about that pivot. And, and again, I think, I think it may, it’s interesting because when we talked, it felt like.
[00:23:01] It’s like a coming home for you. Like you finally realize, oh yeah, it’s true. That I, you know, not only did I come home to South Africa, but I came home back to my values that I now use in my work. Maybe you have done that subconsciously in your, you know, in your corporate positions. But now you really get to use those values and qualities.
[00:23:25] So tell us about the work you do today.
[00:23:28] Zaynub: Yeah, so, so I just like, just a little bit of a backtrack. Like I always thought as a south African in, out of South Africa there was always. And undercurrent with amongst experts that we left South Africa and that we didn’t want to be a part of South Africa and that we were leaving for a better life and things.
[00:23:47] And that was something that I, I always struggled with. It was never, it was never my intention to leave South Africa and never come. You know, I was, to me, I always considered myself south African and I was living away from home and I was enjoying the experience, but something about me, always, this always feels like home.
[00:24:03] And I remember that there was an, I noticed that there was an outlook that it was a them and us. So when we look, when, as experts, we look at South Africa, It’s that country is going down, you know, and there’s no hope it’s, the crime is terrible. Economies shut. They, the next symbolic worry you know, the government’s killing them.
[00:24:28] Politicians are corrupt and, and, and right. And so it was very much not owning that. How do we change that? You know? So it’s that, that feeling of being empowered or I’ll be powerless. And I never subscribed to being powered. And coming back, I I’ve since found the way to describe what it was that I felt back then, you know, it’s like, I always feel that, you know, there was that story of those of four people.
[00:24:56] Everybody, nobody, somebody in anybody, I’m not sure if you know that story. So we, everybody believes that somebody should do it, you know, and and nobody kind of steps up. But so I don’t remember the story out of my head. I believe that I am anybody. And how can I change? How can I contribute to changing South Africa?
[00:25:16] You know, and how can I country, how can I not leave my people behind? And how can I inspire the change? Even if it’s. But what it is that I do. Cause I do believe that it’s so important to be intentional about how you leave people and what you leave them with, which is why I love your, your project. You know, of, of the gentle business revolution is like, how are we going to change that?
[00:25:42] How are we going to bring people, the real essence of people back into what it is that they do every single day, so that we’re not just, you know, chasing paychecks and stuff like that. We actually chasing You know, empowering people and leaving them better than we found them. So the work we do right now is we do a lot of personal development.
[00:26:01] So I now work with the trust connection and we do leadership training, communications training, and a lot of changed mindset type of work where we go from. Where we go from hacking. So, so empowering people to recognize their own unique passions and what makes them who they are and how they influence people within their own organizations.
[00:26:28] And see how we do that with a lot of in-person and experiential neuro-linguistic training as well as life coach training.
[00:26:38] Sarah: It sounds very similar to get w but mark humane marketing and humane business, and all of that is all about it’s like let’s help people first figure out who they are so that they can then go out and share more of them.
[00:26:55] You know, with their clients or in your case with the employer or just, you know, be the change they, they want to see in the world.
[00:27:04] Zaynub: Yeah. Because I think it does start with yourself. Like, you know, as you, as you change the world, you do need to know who you are. Because. As our, our good friend Jean says, you know, we are messages from the system to the system about the system.
[00:27:21] And so when we see that we are a part of that. And so I do believe that, yeah, that’s very, it’s a very empowering skill to be teaching people, to identify these things within themselves.
[00:27:35] Sarah: So if we come back to marketing and business if you think about, you know, business, the way it’s done now, marketing the way it’s done now, how, how can we, you know, use this idea, this philosophy of Ubuntu shared humanity in a way.
[00:27:53] You know, helps us, but also helps everyone involved including the planet.
[00:27:59] Zaynub: So I think Def the first immediate thing I think of is to go from, to go from high to weak, you know? And so in this. And so it’s not IX eliminating the actual part of who, of who, I guess, but it’s that silo mentality, you know, where it’s about competition and it’s about only me and it’s about not asking for help and it’s about what can I gain in my own success and my own achievements.
[00:28:28] And not sharing ideas, not being open to ideas that, that I, that pop that is part of a silo mentality. I think, to, to get rid of that. And then going to more of a, of a re and how, and how is it that I can support you and you can support me and I can ask you, and you can ask me, and how do, how do I win because you win, you know?
[00:28:53] And as I climbed the ladder or as I move forward, how do I pull you with me or influence you or make your life More make it easier, you know, so we, in South Africa, we do have an Advil saying, which is stronger together. I think it’s a, it’s a slogan they use with the rugby. So that’s also something like, you know, what unifies us, what, what makes us what makes us stronger?
[00:29:18] And I think it’s the sense of the fact that we do with. Yeah.
[00:29:22] Sarah: Yeah. It, and there’s, you know, small signs that this is something that’s coming more and more if you think about open source kind of projects but it’s still like, you know, it’s still more in the entrepreneurial world than in the corporate world, for example.
[00:29:41] So there needs to be. Kind of impact pioneers that say, but no, but this is the way you know, I’m thinking of Elon Musk sharing all his Tesla information and saying, go ahead, you know, copy us. It’s all good. We w the goal is not only profit. It’s really having a. We’d only electric cars. Cause he’s so self-assured that he’s like we’re the best anyway, but it’s a good example that he and that’d be a kind of puts there and says, Hey, you know, this is open source.
[00:30:18] And that, that’s what I see as. Yeah, a part of it. And it’s funny, isn’t it? I think it’s Linux their open source is actually called too, which is just, yeah, that I don’t know anybody who uses it, which is sad, but it’s it’s there, it exists. And so I think there’s, there’s just much more work to be done in this kind of.
[00:30:42] You know, context, it’s like, let’s do things together. Let’s maybe find different companies and work on things on projects together. Like I
[00:30:51] Zaynub: think, I think Elon Musk and And even the apple guys are quoted as people who, who have tried to eradicate the silo mentality from the organizations. And so, you know, that unified vision it’s, it’s, it’s it’s a big project that we’re doing at the trust connection as well with with leaders with in South Africa who are doing very meaningful work and how.
[00:31:18] When we share vision, even if it’s not my exact vision, how, how me contributing to your vision ultimately achieves my vision and how yours somehow influences mine. And so I think that unified vision. I think we all, no matter what it is that we’re doing, I think at the end of the day, it all contributes to that great division.
[00:31:39] And the, and that’s I suppose, doing right by humanity and which is, which is what it actually means. It’s that it’s, what’s it like to be. What ease humanity, you know, so I think that first of all, cultures and all races in religions and countries and everything
[00:31:56] Sarah: would, that makes me think of also is this idea of ego that unfortunately is still very big and, you know, leadership and can’t wait for my friend penny Pierce, she’s writing a book about the ego and how to let go of the ego.
[00:32:12] That’s where the work is as well with leaders. Right. What you just shared is so piece it’s like. Yeah. Instead of just everybody having their own vision and saying, but this is my mission vision, and I want the trademark for it. You know, it’s like, why don’t we, you know, get together because our vision in the end, he’s only like slightly different from mine and let’s just collaborate and do things together.
[00:32:39] So
[00:32:39] Zaynub: yeah, I suppose I suppose ego is always going to be a part, a part of all that, like, you know, I suppose it’s, and it’s, it’s a big part of, of the silo mentality, which is why people don’t want to combine and don’t want to share. And, and it’s a totally different mindset when you, when you recognize that your ego.
[00:32:58] Is fed in another way when you support somebody and when you do it together, ego is not completely out of that. It’s just, it’s probably a healthier, it’s a healthier ego driven motivation for something I realized
[00:33:14] Sarah: I, by, by writing my second book now about selling, like we’re human. I just like, well, I don’t want to write it alone this time.
[00:33:22] You know, I wrote the first book alone, like let’s do it together. And so I, you know, put out a message to my community. And five people signed up to do a gentle sales lab and we really came up with the content of the book together. I couldn’t never have done it by myself. I could have, but it would have been a lot harder.
[00:33:43] And, and it was so much more fun and joyful. And I also knew that the book was responding to their needs. Right. Because that’s the audience. I was like, wow, that was so much easier and fun. Yeah. It was really much more fun, but they do have time
[00:34:01] Zaynub: to do the other things you want to
[00:34:03] Sarah: do. Exactly. And my ego is still got a boost.
[00:34:11] Zaynub: That looks for connection is there and empowering somebody else. It was amazing to me to meet that, so that all contributes to my ego as well. It’s the fact that I supported someone else. How amazing is that? But I mean, I, I’m speaking from a personal point of view, so
[00:34:27] Sarah: true, true. I mean, isn’t there a saying in in empathy and kindness that.
[00:34:33] It gives you just as much satisfaction to help someone else then being helped. Right. And so this is a similar thing. Yeah. And so
[00:34:42] Zaynub: that’s also something that we focus on you now in, at the trust connection with our entrepreneur circle is where we asking for help and giving help, you know, offering that and how and entrepreneurs, it’s a stereotype.
[00:34:57] It’s a generalization. Yeah. To say entrepreneurs don’t necessarily ask for help, but to offer it and to take it back that in itself is even if you haven’t asked for it, then you just take it back. That’s that’s also quite powerful. And I think it’s liberating to an extent. Yeah.
[00:35:13] Sarah: Yeah. Wow. This has been wonderful.
[00:35:16] I really loved that conversation about Boone tune, shared humanity and all of that you share with us where people can find out more about you and the trust connection.
[00:35:29] Zaynub: So without a very, we haven’t been around very long, which is still fairly new. And we constantly get. Redesigning our approach to how we thought we take on the training and be very, we do a very tailor-made program for whoever it is that comes to find us.
[00:35:44] We do have a website it’s called the trust connection. That’s and yeah, at the moment. And then we also have a Facebook page called the trust connection and yeah. We have two men strong. And one of us will definitely get back to you. And we happy to just to, to learn about who it is that looks for what it is that we offer, what it is that they need how we can support them using the skills that we have and just to, just to enhance who it is that they are and what are these that they, after.
[00:36:18] So that’s at the moment, that’s the only places you can find us.
[00:36:22] Sarah: That’s that’s already a lot, right. A website is our need today. So we’ll definitely link to that in the show notes. I have two more things I want to ask or, or, or say first thing is, what are you grateful for this week or today say, no.
[00:36:39] Zaynub: What am I grateful for? I am grateful.
[00:36:47] I’m grateful for the people who believe in me and to push me to be. As big as they see me, because I don’t see me that way, but I’m very grateful for that. And they believe in me. And what was the other question? And
[00:37:02] Sarah: the other question has to do with something completely different. So I would just want to know the two face to face.
[00:37:12] So I love that what you just said about. You not seeing yourself the same way that you want. Like other people see the greatness in you and you sometimes don’t see it yourself, so true. Right. So sometimes it really helps to work with a mentor or a coach to, to kind of hold the mirror and say, look, yeah.
[00:37:34] Yeah.
[00:37:35] Zaynub: I feel for me, it’s been, it’s been so powerful because, you know, I think also I was taught to that, that seeing the greatness in you is that. Exactly. And it isn’t necessarily if you’re using it in the right way. And if you empower and if you feel it, and if you feel bad, that that pushes you to be more and do more.
[00:37:58] But I think that it’s a very empowering way to look at things. So, yeah. I’m grateful for those people.
[00:38:04] Sarah: The other thing I wanted to bring up. Trevor Noah thinking about him. And I think he also said, yeah, he called everybody auntie in his neighborhood. And so would you say that he’s one of these ex-pats that we.
[00:38:21] She listens to this episode, we say, please come home. No,
[00:38:26] Zaynub: I think he comes home regularly. I personally think he flies the flag really high. Wherever he goes, like I think he embodies South Africa and he’s just having a great time. We even have these that it is. I always feel that he, no matter where he lives, we will feel a claim to him, you know?
[00:38:44] And I think that, I don’t think. I don’t think he needs to be here for us to feel that we have him. So as an expect, I can fully support him being anywhere in the world and being south African. I think he’s awesome. But I would say
[00:39:01] Sarah: yeah, I mean,
[00:39:03] Zaynub: It would be nice if he came home, but I wouldn’t ever see him anyway.
[00:39:07] So, and it’s
[00:39:09] Sarah: true. And maybe, you know, he’s still young, so right now he’s just living it up. And eventually he won’t, I have a feeling that he will come out
[00:39:19] Zaynub: and I think, and I think he, he doesn’t lose who he is. Like, he speaks so many south African languages and, you know, he, he gets the culture. He gets. So he’s got that humor, but even if he’s sitting in Switzerland, which I mean he’s half Swiss, right?
[00:39:35] Sarah: If he sits proud of that.
[00:39:37] Zaynub: Exactly. If he sits there and he talks about his grandmother in his home language, Instantly the distance is broken. He’s here when he puts on the south African accent and he makes fun of our people at the airport. He is home
[00:39:57] Sarah: so much fun. So if you haven’t read the book yet, highly recommend his book. It’s just also good to see this. Yeah, probably another kind of a desert view, having just listened to a sane up story kind of gives you this dejavu. It’s like, oh yeah, that’s what it feels like
[00:40:17] Zaynub: it is. And when I hear other people’s stories like that, it just shows me how.
[00:40:22] All of us actually are. And even, you know, when I heard your story about how you grew up to me, it’s like ISTE, any difference that if we were in the same country, to me, it would be like, we, we understand. Yeah. And that’s, I think what connections are both on is that, that relate-ability, it’s that ability of me, for me to put myself in your shoes.
[00:40:42] Yeah.
[00:40:43] Sarah: And even if we didn’t grow up the same way, you know, still kind of. Trying to get that perspective and say, oh, that’s how it was for you. I understand. Yeah,
[00:40:57] Zaynub: that’s true. But I do also want to thank you for, for pointing out that open to mindset, you know, in the approach for me personally, and as we spoke before it, wasn’t a way that I considered had impacted me in the way that it has.
[00:41:20] For you to, to highlight something like that, about the spirit of a bring too. It just made complete sense. And so, yeah, I, I want to say thank you to you for
[00:41:29] Sarah: that. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing more of that Uber into philosophy. I think the world can definitely need more of that.
[00:41:39] Thanks Zaynub. You’re welcome. Thank you.
