Create a Meaningful Group Coaching Program

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Curious if a group program is the right next step for your business? In this new episode on the Humane Marketing podcast, Sarah Santacroce talks with group program expert Kerry Dobson about the power of small, interactive groups.

Together, they explore what truly defines a group program, the unique benefits of intimate settings, the facilitator’s role, and the importance of understanding your “why” before getting started. If you’re an entrepreneur seeking clarity and a more humane approach to group offerings, this conversation is for you.

In this episode we talked about:

• The definition of a group program and how it compares to other offerings, such as online courses or memberships.
• The distinction between large-scale “guru” group programs (one-to-thousands) and smaller, more intimate groups, and the impact on transformation and participant connection.
• The unique value and magic that happens in smaller, intimate groups, especially regarding participant-to-participant connection and transformation.
• The facilitator’s role in group programs and why it can be more powerful to host smaller groups rather than large ones.
• The business and impact considerations of running small versus large group programs, including the challenges and benefits of each model.
• The pitfalls of trying to emulate large-scale group models when starting out, and the importance of building impactful small groups first.
• The significance of understanding your “why” before creating a group program, and the questions to consider before deciding if a group program is right for you.
• A sneak preview of what we’ll work on during the Collab Workshop with Kerry on July 2nd. If you’d like to join us go to humane.marketing/workshop

Kerry’s Resources

Kerry’s Website

Follow Kerry on LinkedIn

Sarah’s Resources

(FREE) Sarah’s One Page Marketing Plan

(FREE) The Humane Business Manifesto

(FREE) Sarah’s Substack

Marketing Like We’re Human – Sarah’s first book

Selling Like We’re Human – Sarah’s second book

The Humane Marketing Circle

Podcast Show Notes

We use Descript to edit our episodes and it’s fantastic!

Email Sarah at sarah@sarahsantacroce.com

Thanks for listening!

After you listen, check out Humane Business Manifesto, an invitation to belong to a movement of people who do business the humane and gentle way and disrupt the current marketing paradigm. You can download it for free at this page. There’s no opt-in. Just an instant download.

Are you enjoying the podcast?  The Humane Marketing show is listener-supported—I’d love for you to become an active supporter of the show and join the Humane Marketing Circle. You will be invited to a private monthly Q&A call with me and fellow Humane Marketers –  a safe zone to hang out with like-minded conscious entrepreneurs and help each other build our business and grow our impact.  — I’d love for you to join us! Learn more at humane.marketing/circle

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Warmly,

Sarah

Imperfect Transcript of the show

We use and love Descript to edit our podcast and provide this free transcript of the episode. And yes, that’s an affiliate link.

Create Meaningful Group Programs

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Sarah Santacroce: Hi, Carrie, how are you in Canada today.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: I’m good. I’m happy to be here. We are experiencing a summer that feels like some other summers, but it’s hazy, and the sun is trying to come out. But with the smoke from the wildfires it’s definitely changing. The feel.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, there’s a little bit we talked about that before hitting record. Right? It’s a

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Sarah Santacroce: yeah. It’s not the usual sunny day. Let’s just say, yeah, yes.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Yeah.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, it’s good to acknowledge that. I think you know. Yeah.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Yeah, right? I mean, when it’s when it’s in the air. Literally, it’s hard to to be, you know, doing all the things without it without naming it and without acknowledging it. And I think there’s a lot in the air right now.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, yeah, we’ll save that for another episode. But today we wanted to talk about groups and group programs.

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Sarah Santacroce: And you have kind of specialized yourself in that topic. And yeah, I can’t remember who. But I think there’s at least 2 people who mentioned your name, and we also connected on Linkedin. So I’m like I got to talk to Carrie, because personally, I love group programs. I’ve been hosting them for a while

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Sarah Santacroce: a long time.

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Sarah Santacroce: but I never. You know, I don’t specialize in creating group programs, but people in the community have asked me before about it. So here we are.

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Sarah Santacroce: Why don’t you start by kind of like telling us

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Sarah Santacroce: what a group program looks like, what that is in comparison to another offering. Just kind of covered the basics.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Yeah. So group is kind of like this big umbrella. Right? When when someone finds out that I specialize in groups, it’s always interesting to see what their next question is, because that quickly tells me what they think. A group is right.

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Sarah Santacroce: And so.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: That can be anywhere from. Oh, Facebook groups, right? That’s what people think of, or it could be a retreat. Or you know, all those kinds of things. So the the really big kind of definition of group is anytime that you have 4 or more people, right? So there’s like you have to have more than 3 is kind of what I say, that there’s some kind of shared goal or purpose like there’s a reason why people are together. And then there’s some kind of live component. And that’s

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: that’s 1 of those really big

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: distinguishers between like an online course, or sometimes even a membership doesn’t necessarily have a live component to it. And so that’s kind of like the really big umbrella of group that I talk about. But even within group I have a specialty. Even further, I’ve niched that down even more, because

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: for me, where the magic really happens with group is what you know, those intimate kind of transformative groups. And so my criteria of a group, when I talk about a group is that it’s actually, you know, 6 to 16 people. So I want even more than that 4 and kind of knocking it at 16, because any more than that. And you need more people to help kind of create

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: a sense of group. You have a start and an end date, meaning like, there’s a time where you come together, and there’s a time where you’re done. And so that’s 1 of those things that changes between like a membership and what I talk about for a group program.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Then there is what is most important, which is the program promise, and that is what we promise we will accomplish and or experience in our time together. And so there’s this really clear kind of commitment to that, and then the live component again. So there’s work that can be done that isn’t live. But the groups that I focus on have that live component. There’s a time whether that’s in person or online, where people are coming together and interacting with each other.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, I love that. And as you were talking I was thinking.

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Sarah Santacroce: Wow, you know, it seems so basic and and makes so much sense. And yet I’ve been in the online space for 20 years. And

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Sarah Santacroce: and that’s not how we defined a group program back in the days, a group program. Or maybe we didn’t even call it a group program. But it was just like, you know, the famous names who put out their program and sold it as a group program. But it was basically the Guru speaking to thousands and thousands of

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Sarah Santacroce: people. Right? And so yes, technically, there was a live interaction. But it was this idea of the one to a thousand people which is not, is clearly different from how you define a group, and also how I define a group, and where the transformation can really happen

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Sarah Santacroce: compared to a 1 to a thousand. And then you’re just a number in that giant group. I don’t know if the transformation can really be the same right.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Yeah. And so that that’s been part of me kind of coming to this specialty, right? Because there’s skills. And there’s tactics that you can do to try to make that one to like, you know, 20 plus

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: feel something. But you know I always get that feeling like, if I’m on Zoom, for example, and I have to like scroll to another page to see everybody like suddenly. There isn’t that kind of intimate connection there also is. I was kind of say, it’s like from the pulpit, right where it’s like, you’re the person who’s sharing your wisdom. But there isn’t really an opportunity for people to interact with you. And more importantly, which is

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: kind of weird when you when you start really thinking about it. But more importantly, people can’t connect with each other. And to me that’s the magic of intimate groups. And it feels weird, right? Because you bring the group together. They are there for your wisdom. But the power and the magic of the group is actually what they’re doing without you, or you’re there facilitating it. But it’s not about you. It’s not around you. You’re just kind of holding the space and creating the space. So those connections can happen.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. And I think that’s really what makes you different from all of the other group, gurus and specialists, and and why it so resonates with me because I I admit I had to. I learned that the hard way or kind of like I didn’t see any other role models who were saying that that’s what needs to happen in a group. But I just

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Sarah Santacroce: didn’t want me to always be the one doing all that I didn’t want to teach anymore. Basically, I’m like, I’m not here to teach. You know, my, I see my clients as really smart, conscious human beings. So I want to bring in their.

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Sarah Santacroce: You know their skills as well. And and yeah, that’s exactly it. That’s where the transformation also happens in the breakout rooms. That’s that’s why, zoom is so great. Right? We didn’t have that option before. And before the pandemic. Really.

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Sarah Santacroce: So, yeah. But we got way, you know, we’re like, okay, we’re super passionate about this. We’re just gonna jump. I want to go back to kind of like, okay, the the basics.

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Sarah Santacroce: So if you talk about these groups. And you think about the participants. We talked about the transformation. Why is it also more powerful for the facilitator to host these kind of groups that are not, you know, because again, we would think, well, isn’t it? Doesn’t it make more business sense to have a thousand people in your group than than you know, 20 or or less like 16

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Yeah, right? And I think I think that’s the real kind of the tension that happens. Because if you have a thousand people

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: in theory you can charge like you have to charge less. But you can charge right? The numbers can work.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: But it’s really when you sit there and think about the impact that you want to have.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: That’s what’s most important to me is, how do you have that impact? And listen. There is a business model for speaking for 1,000 people groups, you know they are out there, and if that is what you’re interested in, and it’s a quantity

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: game, and I’m not. I don’t mean that judgmentally. But it’s like, Okay, you have to have a message that speaks to a lot of people you have to kind of constantly be coming up with new information to share to those same people versus. When you say I actually really want people to do something with this wisdom, I want them to actually make a change in their business and their relationship and their life and their health, whatever it is you help them with.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Then that’s where you have to slow it down, and you have to get closer to them to help them deal with the inevitable obstacles and the inevitable frustrations that they encounter while they’re trying to do it right. There is for most of us. What we’re talking about isn’t something that’s easy for people to do right. It’s things that you have to slow down. You have to be conscious. You have to keep trying.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: And so it’s really about, what is the impact you want to have. Some people really want to impact the masses with information and knowledge

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: versus other people when they imagine kind of that legacy or impact they want. They want real change to have happened because of what they know and what they share. And I would argue for most times in order to have that change. You need a small ratio so you can be there and help them, or you have to have

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: enough kind of disciples that are there helping you. So that if you’re in these large environments they’re still getting that small group experience. They’re just not getting it with you.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. And and I also just wanna

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Sarah Santacroce: kind of add some real talk here for people who are just starting out. Because that’s also what we’re going to talk about like is this is a group right for you? Right? And so if you go in this with this idea of Oh, I want to create groups of a thousand of people. And that’s constantly the message that we’re being sold.

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Sarah Santacroce: Then you’re definitely going to fail because it’s not that easy to immediately go to a thousand people. So you’re much better off thinking, oh, I’m going to create something really impactful for a small group of people. And then, if you see oh, my God! This group works so well, I’m going to, you know, grow myself and then level up.

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Sarah Santacroce: But I think if you go in there with this intention of copying what some Guru is teaching, then then that just sets you up for failure and frustration.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Yeah, a great point. And you know the reality is is you don’t necessarily know where they started. Right? You’re seeing them 1015, 20 years into the business that they have and the work that they’ve done. And so.

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Sarah Santacroce: Okay.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: You don’t know kind of where they started, and I would venture unless they were a celebrity already. They started with smaller groups, too. Right. That’s just how it works, right in terms of.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: you know, for most of us we don’t have a ready built audience that we could tap into. And you know, kind of go big. But yes, if if you go back and look at the history of some of those gurus, you would probably discover. Oh, there was some smaller things happening at the beginning for them, too.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, you talk about the importance of having a clear. Why, before you, yeah, maybe just hear from someone else. Oh, you should be doing groups. So so what are some of these questions that one should think about before yeah, going into just creating groups.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Yeah. So I always say, there’s no shooting in groups. Right? If the only reason you’re thinking about having a group is because someone’s made you feel, or someone said to you, you should have a group. That is not the case. In fact, you know, some of the conversations I have are like this giving people permission, not that they need mine, but giving them permission to not explore groups

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: because they aren’t interested in it. They don’t. You know that kind of intimate small group setting isn’t something that they want to even experience. So the clear why is important number one.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: it helps you get through the obstacles that you’re going to run into. As you put this group together, right? There’s typically for most people, once they have this idea for a group. There’s this like high level of excitement at the beginning. But then, when you start like putting the pieces together and

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: putting the copy together and having conversations. You know that we start to doubt ourselves, and we start to run into obstacles. And you know, if we start talking to people about it, and they’re not really enthusiastic about it. We start doubting it, like all those kinds of things. And it’s the clear why that helps you through those points, because it’s what’s kind of you’re like. I know that if people do this together

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: they’re going to have better results. I know that they’re going to feel like they’re part of something, and that’s going to help them. So when you have that clear, why, it really helps you get through. You know the messy middle, and you know the the inevitable disappointments as you go there. The other thing that happens with that clear why is you’re able to make all sorts of program decisions around it.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: So what I mean by that is, you know, a clear why helps you to know, you know, are we doing this in person? Are we going to a luxury retreat center, or are we, you know, backpacking it, you know, in the mountains? Or are we doing it at the local community center? Or are we doing it online? So the clear, why really does help you to make some of the program decisions that there’s no right or wrong answer, for it’s just what is

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: the right answer for your group.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

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Sarah Santacroce: What would you say then? What other factors, you know, maybe in terms of your business model, or or how how far you’re in? What other factors are there that help to have ready or thought.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: So just like everybody else. You know, it depends right? That that’s the true sign that you know, someone isn’t just trying to sell you like a checklist, or whatever. So it does depend. And if if you are so clear that you want groups, and that’s the only way you want to work with people. There is a way to do it without what I’m going to talk about. But

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: what I’m going to talk about really does when you have all these things in place. The group is just an easier offer to bring to your clients.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: So it’s things like already having a solid offer that people have said yes to. So you know that this is something that people want they’re willing to pay for. They’re willing to say yes to. You want some kind of email list that you’ve been nurturing. So people that know you and know what you’re about and have already kind of said, yes, I want to hear from you.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: You want to have, like a framework or a point of view which sometimes comes out in the offer. But you want to be known for something. You have a level of expertise. This isn’t just like the new thing that you’re coming up with, but you’re known for something

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: you want to have resources and tools that have already worked right? So you want what happens in a group that doesn’t happen when you’re working one on one is you. You need to take a whole bunch of people to the same place.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: So with one on one, you can kind of pivot as you need to or like, you know, move around as people need. But as a group, you don’t have that ability because you’re bringing a bunch of people to the same place. So you want to really know that your resources and tools work and they work consistently with different people. It wasn’t just like a 1 off for someone.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: And then you know, some type of engaged community that maybe goes beyond your email list. But there’s people who know you and have engaged with your stuff and kind of giving you those indications of

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: yes, it’s interesting. And then I always say, having at least 11 on one clients really helps you to know that that framework, those resources, those tools that they’ll consistently deliver kind of that outcome or that program promise. So it just makes it easier to bring those to the group.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, that’s a good benchmark to to to. Yeah, just kind of like, have

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Sarah Santacroce: practiced what you preach right before you go. And

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Sarah Santacroce: yeah, sometimes what I see is is kind of the the dollar sign as an as a motivation for groups right where you feel like. Oh, but I can sell 10 times my time.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Yes.

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Sarah Santacroce: That should not be the 1st motivation. It is a motivation. Yes, but it shouldn’t be the 1st one if you haven’t. Yeah checked off all of these other things, and maybe not all of them at the same time, and all the things that you mentioned. But at least yeah, having had the clients and.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Yeah.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: So what I often will see is somebody who’s kind of new to business, and they haven’t quite figured out their offer. And it’s not really selling. And so they’re like, I’m gonna go do a group, because it’s cheaper. Right? We have this belief.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: That a group is. It’s a you know. Everybody’s saying no to me, just because of price, right? And so if I offer something less. I can make more money per hour, but it’s more accessible to them. And the problem with that is.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: you don’t have an offer that someone said yes, to yet, regardless of the price tag. And it’s then a quantity game, right? So in order to make that really work. Yes, you have a lower cost, maybe, for people. But you then need to sell 6 people instead of one. And so what often will happen is, people will offer their group program

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: kind of too early. They might get one, maybe 2 people. And then they’re in this really awkward position of

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: do I? Do? I run this group with one person that’s not a group. So now I’m giving one on one support. But I’m not.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: I’m not really making the money that I need to make, or I’ve got 2 people. It’s not a group. Or sometimes you then say, Okay, I’m gonna bring a whole bunch of people into the group for free, just so we can have the group experience.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: But then it’s this thing of like, you’re not getting paid anyway, like, really. Ultimately, you’re doing all this work. And you’re not getting paid anyway. So that motivation that you had doesn’t come to fruition. And then that’s where we start like doubting, like, oh, groups won’t work, and I can’t do groups. I’ve got to come up with something else.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. And those are all real examples that you just shared, that those are the decisions that we then need to make. And I have been in that decision-making process. And it’s true that another thing, I think, that we are shown by other people who do have built giant audiences. They then push the price down for everybody else in the on the market. And they are selling their programs

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Sarah Santacroce: supposedly group programs. But they’re selling to, you know, thousands of people

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Sarah Santacroce: at a super low price. And so and so then we with our really small group programs, are competing with those prices or people are comparing. Oh, but I could. Do you know something similar for 10th of the price? Yeah. But you’re not getting the same kind of transformation or support. Right? So the yeah, the pricing really is. Yeah.

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Sarah Santacroce: the the.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Of it.

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Sarah Santacroce: Big groups haven’t done us a favor with.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Yes.

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Sarah Santacroce: They priced their program.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: The way I look at it is the big group like kind of 20 plus. But definitely in the hundreds, you’re just paying a lot of money for a Youtube channel, because.

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Sarah Santacroce: That’s a good way to put it.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: It. That’s what you’re experiencing. It’s a live Youtube experience. And you know, we have chat functionality on Youtube like it. So it it really is. You’re paying, in my opinion, quite a bit of money just to watch Youtube. And so so that’s the comparison. The other thing is. And you know this might be my optimist side, but I actually believe a really well run.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: curated both from a content standpoint like a really disciplined curation of content. And who’s actually in the group like really saying only the right group that should actually be at a higher price point

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: than one on one support, because it’s access to the people who are going to help you do this right. It’s the people who are going to make you believe in yourself like no one else can show you that it’s possible, like no one else can. And so we’re not there yet. But that’s actually where I think we can get to when we focus on these intimate transformational groups is, people will want to be part of it and will eventually pay a premium to be part of it.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, I think it. It would depend on the topic. What I see a lot in in my group is this confidence building that? Yes, part of it I’m doing. But yes, they are also doing with each other. And so

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Sarah Santacroce: it it happens throughout the course. But it isn’t necessarily there at the beginning.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yes, and so.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Percent.

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Sarah Santacroce: The problem is, well, how do you sell them? This idea of yes, you’re going to build confidence with each other right?

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Yeah. And people aren’t willing to pay for it right now, because they don’t know what it means. Right?

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Because most of us have that I call it the crappy group experience right where it’s not bad. It’s just. It’s not a great group experience. And so that’s why I don’t think we’re there yet. And it’s also why.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: when you’re trying to market and I am not the expert in marketing. But when you’re trying to market a group, it’s almost impossible to truly tell them what the group experience is, because they’ve never experienced it before, because they’re comparing this to that crappy group experience. And so one of the things that I work on with my clients is.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: there is a a belief that I have, that we want to make groups repeatable. That is where it really benefits us, and the impact that we want to have.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: And so, by making it repeatable, you also, the people who experienced it with you become your greatest referral partners. And they’re telling people. People are seeing that they did something different. And they’re like, Hold on a second. What were you part of. And so they’re the ones that can really make the story about how the confidence is and how different this group is compared to other things, because.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: whatever you say, people aren’t comparing it to that crappy group experience.

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Sarah Santacroce: That’s such a good point. John and I always spend

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Sarah Santacroce: in the time to really create a case study with each participant where, you know we on the video, we she, the person shares the before and after. And I always ask about the group experience, and they then get their separate page that they can share. You know. And then there’s a commission agreement. But I agree, it’s like

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Sarah Santacroce: we don’t have the role models for for the good groups. And so it it needs to be, you know, really paid attention to that. That really becomes your business model, and it’s only worth doing. If you repeat the same group right?

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: It really really is, because the other thing that I’ve noticed is people will create a group.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: And it goes well because they’ve got that engaged community. They’ve got that email list and they run it. And it’s great. They get feedback. And then they run it again. And sometimes they have a big enough community to do it. But it’s getting harder to get people to say yes. And so what they do is they create a new group for the same people. They’ve already served right? So they just do a different topic.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: And so part of this is, how can your group help you to broaden your engaged community. How can they help to tell people what this is like? So you truly can repeat it with new people.

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Sarah Santacroce: Okay. So you’re saying it not to create a new group with the same people in a new topic, but repeat the same experience. But with new people. That yes.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Yeah. Yeah. And you can do both right. But what I find is people end up kind of only being able to do it a couple times before they run into. I haven’t really found a way to get new people into this. So instead of focusing my attention on how do I get new people to this, because that’s uncomfortable. And that’s stretching. And all those kinds of things. They say, Okay, well, I’m just going to do a new topic, and the same people who said Yes to me before will say yes to me again.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: And so when I look at this and listen, I am biased towards groups. So like we need to own that part. But you know, in that 5 years out, 10 years out, you have a few different groups, right? So different levels as people kind of go through the journey that you’re consistently repeating. And so in a given month you might have 2, 3, 4 groups that are happening. But they’re at different levels. And it’s different cohorts.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: And so you’re not in this constant state of having to create a new group, a new group, a new group. It’s you’ve got a journey that your clients are going through. And there’s group programs that support all that.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah.

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Sarah Santacroce: Tad Hargrave is really doing that well. He has his, you know. He has his journey, and he has one group at the beginning of the year, then another one, and I think he has 3 or 4, so he really figured that out. I don’t know how many people he has in his groups. Now it’s probably on the bigger side, but like he really nailed the consistency of the of the groups so.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Yeah, yes, agreed.

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Sarah Santacroce: I think the other thing is is.

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Sarah Santacroce: you know, I talk about building a business like we’re human and being humane towards ourselves. What I see a lot with these people who are constantly creating new offerings.

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Sarah Santacroce: That’s a ton of work, right? And it always kind of gets you into a different direction. Oh, now I could be covering this, and then you have to create a whole new program again. And and yes, at the beginning, when I just focused on marketing like we’re human. I was like, well, that’s kind of the lazy approach. Build it once, and then, you know, Rinse repeat.

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Sarah Santacroce: But no, what I notice every time the program is different, because we have these live components and guess what I change. You know the world changes every 6 months. The cohort is different, and I bring in. You know what I’ve learned again in the last 6 months, so

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Sarah Santacroce: and I don’t get bored. I usually get bored really fast doing the same thing. But here I don’t get bored, because, yeah, the the live component, which is what I’m focusing on, because the video portion is already created. I don’t touch that, or I just review it. Yeah, I don’t get bored. So I think there’s a huge

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Sarah Santacroce: time saved that you can then focus on the marketing piece rather than you know, spending hours and hours creating a new program each time.

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Sarah Santacroce: But again, some people, you know, like doing that, and that’s great. But.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Totally yeah. And and there’s a difference between. Because because what I say is, once you’ve led a really great group, the people are going to ask what’s next? Because they’re so used to crappy groups. They’re going to want to stay with you. So there’s a difference between I’m creating something to serve that. What’s next question versus.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: I’m burnt out on what I’ve done because it’s not really selling anymore. So let me create something else. And there’s a different energy to that. It’s like I’m serving people. I’m helping them to go further versus. Oh, crap! I’m scared. This doesn’t seem to be working. Let me shift over here. And sometimes, you know, we’re we’re inspired by things that are going on. And we see a need, and we create it. So it’s not that there isn’t

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: these groups that you will create beyond it potentially, but the energy behind it and the motivation behind it is one of service instead of fear.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, yeah, that’s a good point. So to kind of wrap up. What would you say? Are some of the 1st steps that someone who has just listened, besides joining us for the Collab workshop on July second. But besides that, yeah, what are some of the things that you recommend that people look at and think about.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: So to me the big step is understanding your own. Why right is this? Are you shitting a group? Don’t do that. What is it about a group that is appealing to you. What is it about a group that you think really serves you, your business and your clients? So getting that clear? Why

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: is the most important thing. And then, once you have that, I always think it’s really important to kind of start talking to people. So I would say, think of the person who like. If they said yes to your group, you would call your best friend and be like you will not believe, who just said yes to me, right? And that’s the person you want to ask, you know. Say, Hey, I’m thinking of doing a group. This is why, this is kind of what it would be about.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: and just ask for feedback and feedback is a gift. You get to decide what you make of it. But the other problem I see that happens is we create in a silo, in kind of our like creative cave, if you will, and we don’t bring it out to the world till we think it’s ready.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: And so often when we do that, we kind of have that really disappointing launch because we missed something. While we were in our cave something happened, or we didn’t check in enough to kind of say, no, this is really something. So I want you to get those yeses and that confirmation that you’re on the right path as soon as possible.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, that’s a yeah. So good. Like I, when I 1st launched a marketing like we’re human, I did it

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Sarah Santacroce: for a whole year. 3 beta rounds. And you know, just yeah got feedback. And I even changed one of the P’s in the framework just listening to what people wanted. And yeah, it was really, truly so helpful.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Super helpful, and groups are such a great way to get that feedback, too. Right? Like I work a lot with authors who have written books and then create groups around them. And I always joke like the group will help you write your next book because you’re going to get other stories. You’re going to get that next level. You’re going to get insight that you just don’t get when it’s just you talking to one person.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, so true.

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Sarah Santacroce: amazing. So again, we’re going to host a collab workshop on July second, where you’re going to go much deeper into these topics because we have 90 min. And I would assume that we’re also going to be like practicing. You know the real group feelings. So you’re probably going to put us into breakout rooms and that kind of thing. Yeah, tell us a bit more what you want to cover during that workshop.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Yeah. So what you’ll get out of that workshop is, we will explore your why in way, more detail. So you’ll learn about some of kind of the more common whys that are out there in the group

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: world like wise. And then the magic of groups which are the why’s that? A lot of people if they’ve never experienced a great group don’t really know. So we’re going to explore. And you’re going to get to really experience that and kind of get your clear. Why, and then you’re also going to do a bit of an assessment for yourself, too, in terms of where are you when it comes to your readiness for a group so

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: kind of looking through some of those things I talked about assessing yourself. Kind of deciding. Is there an area I need to work on first, st am I ready? And so you’ll walk out of that workshop, having a really clear why and a readiness assessment for yourself around your own group.

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Sarah Santacroce: Nice. Can’t wait. Yeah. So if people want to join us in the community that’s at humane marketing forward slash workshop. And it takes place on July second 11 Am. Eastern time, and I’ll let you look up the time zones for your own time.

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Sarah Santacroce: Do also share with us, Carrie, where people can find you if they can’t make it for that workshop. I’m sure you have resources on your website and all of that. Please go ahead.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: Yeah. So the place that I’m most active is Linkedin so definitely connect with me there, my website is jjdak.com. That’s jjdak.com. And I also have the great group revolution, private, podcast which is where I dive even deeper into all these things. So if you want to sign up for that. That will be included in the show notes as well.

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Sarah Santacroce: Wonderful. Well, I can’t wait for July second. It’s only a few weeks away. So, looking forward to that, thanks so much for doing this today and seeing you again on July second.

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Kerry Dobson ~~ www.jjdak.com: I’m looking forward to it, too, and thank you so much for having me.

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Sarah Santacroce: You’re welcome.