Branding and Marketing with Authenticity

Lisa Haggis

Today’s conversation about branding and marketing with authenticity fits under the 2nd P of the Humane Marketing Mandala, the P that stands for Personal Power. I’m talking to Lisa Haggis about being honest with ourselves so we can be honest with our clients.

Lisa Haggis, the founder of Realize Your Brand, helps entrepreneurs discover how to build a remarkable brand for their product or service from the ground up. With over a decade of marketing and branding experience, Lisa helps solve a major branding issue all entrepreneurs face – articulating why someone should pick their service, product or offering over the many competitors that exist.

"Authenticity to me is freedom. If you are truly being yourself and being honest in this world, there's nothing more freeing than that." – Lisa Haggis @sarahsantacroce #humanemarketing Share on X

In this episode, you’ll learn about branding and marketing with authenticity and…

  • Why real branding starts with the deep inner work
  • Why it’s all about your point of view, not your personality
  • What Lisa means by ‘stripping away our defenses’
  • The main ingredients of a brand that’s based on a point of view
    and so much more.

Lisa’s Resources

Realize Your Brand

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Marketing Like We’re Human – Sarah’s book

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Authentic & Fair Pricing Mini-Course

Podcast Show Notes

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Thanks for listening!

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Imperfect Transcript of the show

I will provide a transcript of the show whenever I can, but please be informed that this is non-edited, so far from perfect. On the positive side you might get a chuckle from reading it, because these robot transcripts are often quite funny 🙂

[00:00:00] Sarah: Hi, Lisa. So good to speak to you today. I’m excited for this deep and I was going to say dark, but it’s not

[00:00:08] deep

[00:00:08] conversation.

[00:00:10] Lisa: I’m open to wherever we go. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:00:16] Sarah: Yeah. It’s a pleasure to have you on the show. So yeah, kind of like the topic is being honest with ourselves. And I think that’s why I said Derek, because there’s often we refer to it as the shadow work, you know, like that’s the being honest with ourselves.

[00:00:33] And then also being honest with our audience. So yeah, I think the first thing I want to know is why is that a topic that’s close to your heart? Because that’s the feeling that I got from your brand. So let’s

[00:00:49] Lisa: start with. Okay. Well there’s two pieces, right? And so first it really is about being honest with yourself.

[00:00:56] And honesty is something that I’ve always known I cared about. And what I’ve found is that over the course of. Life or especially running a business. What I’ve learned is there are levels to it. It’s not as simple as you think. Like we can think we’re being honest, but filled with lies about ourselves.

[00:01:23] And so I’m somebody who really started 10 years ago in business believing a lot of lies about myself. And trying to build a business authentically from that place and really struggling because I didn’t really see who I was. And so what, the reason I care about this topic so much is because it’s not a simple topic.

[00:01:48] Like we hear that authenticity is so important and it is like authenticity to me is freedom. If you are truly. Being yourself and being honest in this world, there’s nothing more freeing than that. And it’s like, a lot of us are trying to be authentic. I don’t think anybody’s trying to be inauthentic.

[00:02:11] I just think that a lot of us are prescribing two definitions of success or, or ideas of who we are that are not. Truthful. And so to me, like, this is such a multi-layered topic because I really believe everybody wants to be honest. Everybody wants to be authentic. Like that’s not what I question minus the how, like how do we all get to be that way in this world?

[00:02:41] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. It’s so true. It’s it’s, it’s like.

[00:02:48] The what’s surrounding us is telling us probably too, or making us feel like we have to be a certain way in order to come over as authentic or come over. Who knows successful as well. And so we still try to be authentic, but actually I liked when you said we’re telling ourselves lies that that’s who you are when actually you’re not.

[00:03:17] So the question is how do we find or find out that we’ve been telling you. The story really resonates with me because that’s exactly what I’ve gone through as well. There’s like this part of me that was always missing and my community knows that it does. It’s my hippie upbringing. So growing up in a hippie commune and kind of this collective community, I was embarrassed for the longest time.

[00:03:43] You know, that that was part of, of me. And especially in this business world, I chose to build a LinkedIn consulting business. You know, hiding that for the longest time. Well, that made me in sentence. Right, because, because then it’s, well, if you’re hiding a big part of you, then how can you show up authentically?

[00:04:05] And you’re so right. It’s, it’s about the freedom, all of a sudden when you let go of that. Wow. There’s just so much freedom. So I’m curious about your story. How did you find out you know, or how, yeah. What was your story like in, how did you for years.

[00:04:23] Lisa: Yeah. Well, the first thing that comes up when you asked that question was, and I wish I could remember who I heard say this, but it was just some fleeting video on Facebook that really hit me.

[00:04:34] And this was meant like maybe four or five years ago now. And this woman said free people are not easily offended. And I remember hearing that and I was a person who was easily offended and, and so it, it really struck me and I examined it and, and I saw the truth in it. Like I, you know, I, I think of, this is just a story from my own journey when I went to.

[00:05:06] Into business on my own. I asked a former boss to write a, like a recommendation for me on LinkedIn. And he said in this recommendation that I wore my heart on my sleeve, and I remember. Being devastated, offended. I was so upset that that’s what he chose to say me. And that’s an example, like why was I so offended by that because of fear and when we can find the things that were, I think, afraid that other people will find out about them.

[00:05:43] Or afraid that other people will think about us because it wasn’t that I was afraid people would find it out about me because I wasn’t even acknowledging it was true. I was afraid other people would think that I was heart led and like, you know, soft. And he cuddled like, you know, warm and nurturing and I didn’t want to be any of those things.

[00:06:05] And so to me, like that was the ultimate clue. There’s something I’m so afraid people will think about me. It’s probably true. It’s probably true and I’m not accepting it. And that’s how I found most of the clues around the ways that I was being you know, just kind of lying to myself because the fear comes from, you know, like I think a pretty honest place.

[00:06:34] Like there’s a reason that fear is there. It’s telling you something.

[00:06:38] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it’s always talking to us. Fear is always talking to us, wanting to say something. You just have to pause and listen in order to, to actually hear it. So you’re a branding specialist, right. And I guess people kind of like wondering, wow, they don’t just dove right.

[00:06:59] In really deep, but what does that have to do with branding? Because. Quite honestly, if I think of some of the big companies, big brands, honesty and authenticity is probably not the first thing that I think of. So in your, yeah, kind of realization, how did you put those two together and how does it now matter in the work you do to.

[00:07:26] Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. Well, my, like my true background is in marketing. Like I worked early in my career in marketing positions for some small companies and some larger companies and you’re right. You know the. Like putting honesty and authenticity in the forefront, in your marketing and how you’re showing up.

[00:07:48] It is not the top priority for a lot of organizations out there. And so for me being a marketing person, I felt a lot of frustration when I was being asked to grow numbers or, you know, bring in revenue or audiences for these brands that. In my opinion, kind of didn’t deserve the attention. Didn’t deserve the clients, the customers, because they weren’t showing up in a way that made them worth.

[00:08:24] Mentioning worth marketing. And that’s when I really like, started getting interested in what, what happens before that part, because I know we’re going to talk about marketing versus branding later. But most people don’t understand that marketing is more than communications. Right? And so my role when I was a marketing person was really a communications role and I got much more interested in.

[00:08:49] The other stuff where you’re actually making decisions like deep in the business that make the marketing. Easier because you just tell the truth because you have something worthwhile that you’re offering that actually helps people changes lives. You actually care about the people you actually like.

[00:09:12] You’ve built a business that I say is worth mentioning, and then the marketing can be authentic, can be honest. And so for me, it was kind of just the. Like, I kind of went through my own, I guess journey of like learning about personal branding and reading some really inspirational books, like from big business thinkers, like Seth Goden and people who did see that branding.

[00:09:41] Isn’t the surface stuff that it’s not just about saying things it’s about being things and. And I just kind of started to inspire me to like, see what it’s like if I put that together. So like, I call my business like 10 years now. It’s been a, just like a big lab of trying to like, prove that it’s possible to succeed as your authentic self in business and helping businesses do that.

[00:10:12] So that’s like, that’s my story. And like how I’ve ended up here, where. I’m so obsessed with it. I’m so committed to proving it and cracking the code further and further.

[00:10:27] Sarah: I love that. That you said, yeah, that word lab that really resonates with me. He goes, yeah. In, in my first book marketing, like we’re human.

[00:10:37] I actually share, you know, how most people, they write a book, they share a story, how they went from the trenches and now they’re, you know, succeeding and everything is great. And so I’m like, well, I’m not there. So I can’t really say that. That’s what happened. And I couldn’t even tell them, look humane marketing.

[00:10:57] That’s the only way that’s what you got to do. And it’s going to work. It’s going to be all great. And so I’m like, yeah, I don’t know what’s going to happen, but it’s the only way forward for me. And so I hear you’re saying the same thing, except that you have like 10 years ahead of me. So tell me, is it, is it working?

[00:11:16] I want to know.

[00:11:17] Lisa: Yeah, like when I, when I embarked, I, there was proof, you know, like in the, in the books that I was reading the book that really was the catalyst for me, is this book called Mavericks. And so I knew that I wasn’t like, you know, embarking in completely unknown territory, that there were people who had gone before.

[00:11:36] But applying it kind of in the small business world like that, that was something that felt really experimental. And it, what I’ve found is that it works, of course, like, of course it works and. And this brings us back to like our topic today. It’s not just about getting the business strategy, right though.

[00:11:59] Like if you want to build a bravely authentic business, brave is the keyword. And so what I find is a lot of people really try to have it all, like they want to be authentic, but they’re not willing to risk truly showing them. Hmm, like with all of those defenses stripped back. And so they’re trying to do it both ways that doesn’t work.

[00:12:25] That that leads to just really more being, like being generic and blending in because you’re still hiding yourself.

[00:12:34] Sarah: And I guess it doesn’t work because people see through it.

[00:12:39] Lisa: Well, people just don’t what they do is they don’t see. The like, like I call this hedging bets. Like when, you know, you, you kind of know what you stand for.

[00:12:51] You kind of like when, like, what I often say is a lot of my clients got it right on day one, but how they’re showing up now is the problem, because they were clear on who they were, who they wanted to serve, what they wanted to do. And they, every time it didn’t work. Added something and then added something because they were convinced that they weren’t enough as they were.

[00:13:17] And so they added more offerings, they added more messaging, they added more everything. And so where they’re at now, who they are is like bear weight.

[00:13:29] Sarah: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. What I noticed also when I wrote the book. The stories, the success stories of, you know, authentic businesses, they existed. And there was a lot of them.

[00:13:47] However, it was not the ones that were screaming the loudest. It’s not the ones that you see out there. You know, creating giant webinars, look at me and how I made million dollars. It also often is they have different definitions of success. Maybe a lot of times I noticed it’s more about. Impact and lifestyle and freedom and making true contribution and not just about the money and in our society, what we measure is the money.

[00:14:19] And so that’s why often these businesses kind of don’t show up there.

[00:14:25] Lisa: That’s so true. And I think that that’s a lot of what leads to people losing their way a little bit is they start buying into, like, I know I did. I remember, I remember early on joining a webinar and somebody said, if you don’t have more than, I think it was like 500 people on your list and you’ve been in business for more than one year, then you better go hire yourself a business coach.

[00:14:48] You better do. You know, like she, she just like gaming. There was like, it was a. It was a fact, she just like laid it down. Like it was a fact and I bought into it and I started to lose my, you know, my own kind of self-trust and think, oh, she knows better than me. And so like, that is really difficult because there are a lot of really confident, really loud people out there who will tell you what to do.

[00:15:18] And like one of the things. That all share is like my business journey. Like I’ve been in business for 10 years and the first seven years were nothing to write home about like financially or anything like that. Like, it really was a lab for me of just trying to serve and get better and better at my craft.

[00:15:38] But there was a lot of shame throughout all of those years that I wasn’t like making it or hitting it big or anything like that. But what I’ll share is. Like about three years ago, a big turning point for me was that I stopped trying to work on my business and I worked on myself instead and I regained myself trust my self esteem.

[00:16:03] The bravery component, like the true bravery to stop hiding and stop like compromising what I knew to be true, like how I wanted to build my business. And when I did that, I really did see a huge shift and a lot more. Of the typical kinds of success, because I was just being bold. I was going all in with what I knew I wanted to create right.

[00:16:30] From the start, but just kind of beat around the Bush for seven years,

[00:16:34] Sarah: right? Yeah. Because we get sidetracked because of. All everything we see around us and we feel like, oh, that’s how you have to do it. And it’s not. And, and I’m so glad you found your way home and it really, yeah, it takes, it takes the deep work.

[00:16:52] And that’s what we’re also always talking about here in marketing. It starts with yourself before you go out there and think about your ideal clients. You really need to start with yourself and, you know, definition of success. Values, worldview, all of these important things, but let’s talk about branding because that’s your specialty.

[00:17:13] So, you know, it’s so easy to just say, just be authentic or just be honest, but how is, how are we supposed to do that? Like how do you do that in your business? Or how do you help your clients do that?

[00:17:28] Lisa: Yeah, well, I, so I, I have. Like I said, I’m kind of a mad scientist and my business. And so what I’ve developed as a methodology in order to help frame that.

[00:17:41] And like, what I like to say is like, so it’s, I call it substantial branding and there are three components to this meaning value and originality and. The value piece is the one that I want to really focus on because I feel like it’s where people lose their way. Like almost immediately if you know, for a lot of reasons, but so value in your business and your brand is having a promise.

[00:18:11] Of transformation for people. And you know, a lot of business owners haven’t fully made the connection that if you’re a service provider, you’re in the business of providing a transformation, that is the most important thing, like at the very heart of your brand of your business is that you need to be committed.

[00:18:33] To creating real transformation for people. And so being like really clear on your promise, like, what are you trying? Like, what is that journey? You’re bringing people on? Why should they want it? Why do you care about helping them with it? Like really getting so passionate, so obsessed with that transformation, that promise that you can like.

[00:19:01] You can just declare it with so much conviction and integrity that people feel your, like your passion for it. There are so many lukewarm promises out there in the world that people are only putting out there because they think it will sell something. Right. So really it’s about committing to changing things for people and having that as kind of your, your, the heart of your brand.

[00:19:34] And from there, you can build your originality piece, which is. How you get them. They’re like, based on your unique point of view, like what you understand your experiences and you, you kind of like. Build an a foundation under all of it, which has meaning, meaning that it’s aligned with your values and your own vision for the world.

[00:19:58] And you’re like the things you care about and that you’re building that community of people who care about what you care about. And so those three things value, meaning and originality are like their check marks. Like we’ll take a look at your brand and see where you might have just kind of. Stuck with the default instead of really going inward and saying, you know, what are my values?

[00:20:24] Why do I care about this work? What, what is the promise? The transformation that I provide and what’s my unique way, or like, what do I see differently in how to create that transformation? And when you have those three components you have. Total like the heart, the essence of your business. And you it’s just about living it now.

[00:20:50] Like, mean it live it, do it. And so you get clear on what it is that you have to say, and then you actually do it. That’s really what it’s about. Yeah.

[00:21:00] Sarah: Yeah. I love that. And yet I think it’s not so easy for entrepreneurs to do the living it, right. They’re like I get the big picture. Let’s say I want to put up a Facebook post now, how does that look like and what I tell them?

[00:21:19] And I think you’re saying the same thing. It’s like bring more of you to your marketing. That’s kind of like one of my phrases, and it sounds like you’re doing the same thing. Bring more of your values, your worldview, your stories, your meaning, and that makes up your brand right.

[00:21:37] Lisa: Yeah. Like it’s like about selling more than a product.

[00:21:41] Like you’re selling ideas, you’re selling ideals values. Like, like when I develop brands with my clients, I give them this list of their values. And I say, you are an advocate for these things out in the world. So a Facebook post might have nothing to do with. What you sell or, you know, your products or even a problem that you’re solving your Facebook posts might be that you highly value creativity.

[00:22:14] And you have some re some unique things to say about creativity. And you talk about that out there in the world, because what that will do is it will resonate with the people who care about what you care about. And then you’ll start really attracting people who are on the same. Wavelength as you in terms of your values.

[00:22:33] And that is a really good place to start in terms of building your community and attracting people who are going to be strong fits for you as potential clients.

[00:22:44] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. We’re so we’re so on the same wavelengths, it’s exactly what I talk about as well as does resonance, right. That you’re really trying to get, and you don’t get that unless you do the deep work and.

[00:22:59] No find out who you are and, and that, yeah. You have something also on your website where you say it’s your point of view, not your personality that makes you unforgettable. And I think that’s what you just explained, right? It’s the point of you and not necessarily who you are you know, as a purse, like yeah.

[00:23:18] Maybe explain that personality piece. What you

[00:23:20] Lisa: mean by that? Well, that’s, that’s a really big one for me because. So when I first started in branding, I kind of did whatever one else did. And I would, you know, I would run branding workshops and I would always start with, if you were a brand of cereal, what cereal would you be?

[00:23:38] And like, that’s getting at kind of personality. Right. And then we would look at, okay, so your fruit loops, you should be just like, you should be letting that loose, amping that up. But the truth was like here, I was basically a mini. It’s like standing at the front of a room and being like, well, what’s my breath.

[00:23:58] Like, like, and, and I attract a lot of people who are very introverted or maybe a little more subtle. They’re not interested in like, they’re not interested in being the most bold, loud, funny, or like angry person out there. And they feel left behind. And so like very early on, I was like, what about. Like, what about us?

[00:24:23] How do we build our brand? And so that’s part of the lab was really looking at all these brands that, that weren’t allowed, like the, you know, the Gary Vaynerchuks are like the really and seeing, okay, well, what are the ingredients? What are they doing? And and seeing like, oh, They have, they all have this really unique point of view and that’s kind of like step one.

[00:24:47] And then step two is it’s not just lip service, so they’re not just saying these like really potent opinions and then leaving it at that they have these opinions and then. They create unique like approaches or methodologies, just like you have right. Approaches to how you create transformation for people that are derived from that point of view.

[00:25:15] And so they’re there, they’re saying the thing, and then they’re also walking the talk and how. They like their approach or methodology. And that’s when I started to really form the, you know, the whole substantial branding piece to say like it’s about the originality piece is really about the unique point of view.

[00:25:34] And then. Like an innovative or unexpected approach because of that point of view. And so, yeah, I think that I might’ve, I don’t know if I answered that question. Totally.

[00:25:49] Sarah: Yeah, you totally did. Basically. It’s yeah, it’s not what I thought of is. It’s not just, you know, you’re an extrovert you need to allow brand your you know, th there’s this Sally hogs had with her archetypes, which is great work, right.

[00:26:08] But at the same time, just because your archetype is, I don’t know, prestige doesn’t mean that you need a glittery brand, you know, maybe that’s not your worldview. So, so I really understand what you mean by that. It’s like, It goes deeper than that. The brand really goes deeper in the, and the worldview.

[00:26:30] Well, that’s deeper than just, here’s my smart statement and now buy my stuff.

[00:26:37] Lisa: Yeah, exactly. And the values too. I’ll I’ll wrap in. Like when I say point of view, it really is. Your beliefs and it’s your values and it’s the way those things come together to inform how you do what you do.

[00:26:53] Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:55] That’s so good. Let’s talk about stripping away our defenses. So we kind of touched on it on already, but how does that look? Like? Maybe you can give us you talked about yourself already, but maybe you can give us an example of a client.

[00:27:10] Lisa: Yeah. What this often looks like is ways that clients are playing small or like holding back from, you know, kind of playing their best card.

[00:27:27] And so like an example of. That that felt really, really potent to me is I have a client who’s an interior designer. And when she started working with me, she really believed that she needed to put herself out there with like under the, you know, the, the kind of flag of being reliable. Like being reliable and responsive was really like, she had kind of examined herself and said, this is the only thing that I feel comfortable like that I have the right to be known for.

[00:28:04] And she was in among it. She was in. Field of people who, you know, we’re known for creativity are known for like really incredible design. And she was like, she was afraid to speak that she was good at what she did, you know, because then people might challenge her or. You know, they might look a little with a little more of a critical eye at her designs and be like, actually, you’re, you’re not good.

[00:28:35] Why do you say that? And so she wanted to like build this brand that kind of says nothing. Nothing interesting. Nobody’s going to be like, give me the reliable designer when like she works with businesses who need their spaces to be incredible and create like an environment that customers will want and talk about.

[00:28:59] And she wanted to say she’s reliable, but she wanted to say that not from a place of authenticity, she was saying it from a place of protection because she knew that like, She didn’t really need to live up to anything. She didn’t have to weather criticisms based on that. And so that’s what we do. We hold back the true message.

[00:29:23] The one that like would hurt us if somebody challenged us on it. Like my true message is that I help people build interesting brands. That’s not what I said for the first five years in business, you know we hold back the, the thing that we truly care about and we put the stuff we don’t care about.

[00:29:44] In the forefront, like I’m reliable or I’m responsive because we know that if somebody challenged us challenges us on that, it won’t hurt. We’ll just be. Like it’s, it’s not something that is really, really true to us. So when we put the stuff that we really care about out there, like the messages we care about or what we truly want to be known for who we think like who we know we are, but we’re afraid other people will think burnout.

[00:30:11] We, we put that in the background and we put this stuff in the forefront that we don’t really care about so that it won’t hurt if people challenge us. And so for her, she’s an incredibly creative and original designer and she didn’t want to say any of that because that’s where, you know, if somebody challenged her on.

[00:30:35] That would have hurt. She wasn’t prepared to put herself out there, like to be in the spotlight like that. And so that’s what I mean by stripping back those defenses to say the thing that is actually going to help you build your brand.

[00:30:52] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. It’s almost like what comes to mind is this saying you can’t see the label from inside the char it’s like.

[00:31:03] And external, you know, brand strategist or coach or someone to help you see your greatest self. And oftentimes, yeah, maybe she just didn’t see it. Or like you say, maybe she just didn’t dare it. Wasn’t brave enough to put that out there. And it’s so true. I mean, for when I think of humane marketing yes, of course.

[00:31:28] That also means. I need to, I feel like everything I do now in marketing, you know, people look at it and say, well, was this really humane? Is there any kind of tiny little pushiness or, you know, urgency or any. I’m brave enough, I guess, to say, well, yes. And I think I would also say, well, I’m human. Everyone is human.

[00:31:54] And that’s part of the journey. And, and I guess if I didn’t put that out there, then I, yeah, I wouldn’t feel whole. And so your client, I’m sure now she feels free because she has a brand that really feels true to her.

[00:32:11] Lisa: Well, yeah, and it’s like, it’s just really about being willing to see the best version of yourself so that you can put that version out in the world.

[00:32:23] I love what you just said though, about like, when we are, when we do that, when we strip back our defenses and we go all in with who we really are and what we really mean and what we really care about that. We are opening ourselves up to people, you know, coming at us and saying, you know, like, because, because to say, you know, humane marketing is a bold statement and, and now people will, will try to poke holes in it and you could have chosen something a lot more generic, diluted and safe, and you wouldn’t have.

[00:33:04] Yeah, but you also wouldn’t be saying anything, right? Yeah. And so that’s,

[00:33:10] Sarah: and you know, my rebranding story and it’s almost like it did go from, you know, gentle marketing, which was the original brand, not voluntarily. Kind of gently pushed into that direction. And right now I just I’m like so glad this happened because it really feels even more like me now it does feel braver than, than gentle marketing what it was before.

[00:33:38] So yeah. Yeah. You’re so you’re so right. So, so what are the parallels then, in your opinion, between marketing and branding, you mentioned a little bit earlier, you know, branding is kind of this deeper work or yeah. And then bring it into your marketing, but yeah. Give us some other parallels that you can think of.

[00:34:02] Lisa: Yeah. Like, well, the first thing about branding and marketing that I have to say is that. Like, no, but like, there are so many different like point like points of view out there on what each of those things is. And I know that it’s super confusing for people. And I really hate that. Like, I really wish that there was a clear definition of each of these things that everybody’s subscribed to.

[00:34:28] And that’s just not the case. Like the truth is that what you do with marketing is almost identical to what I do with branding, because you’re doing all of marketing, which includes the product, which includes like all of. Strategic business decisions. And what I’m doing with branding includes all of those strategic business decisions.

[00:34:54] And so it’s really like, it’s kind of a. Sad thing for me that most people think marketing is communications and they think branding is the visual identity and maybe the name and maybe some key messages maybe. And so, and yeah, and of course the lookup. And so what’s happening though, is people are missing this.

[00:35:16] Really important core. And I don’t care whether they call it branding and I don’t care whether they call it marketing. But the core piece that they’re missing is those decisions about who they are, who they serve, what transformation they provide, what they want to be known for, what their purpose is and their vision for their business.

[00:35:37] Like you can call that business strategy, branding strategy, marketing strategy. It doesn’t matter, but it is the most important part of building a business that is a hundred percent like aligned with who you are. And. That you like laying that groundwork so that you can build an interesting business that’s worth mentioning.

[00:36:06] And so for me, when I talk about it, and I’m not saying I’m the authority, I say, we develop a brand strategy and foundation, and then we develop your brand presence. And then we use marketing. I’m using marketing in the sense that most people think of marketing, which is more like the amplification of success by putting yourself out there by growing your audience, by putting your message out there, to put fuel on the fire or wind in the sails.

[00:36:42] So I, like I say, branding is the ship that you’re building. And then marketing is the wind and the. And the reason I say it that way is so that people understand that that foundational part. Of defining your brand strategy, which includes like your messaging, but also those key decisions about who you are as a business.

[00:37:05] It needs to happen first before the promotional energies of marketing, because then you’re putting wind through the sale of a ship that same complete otherwise.

[00:37:18] Sarah: Yeah, it’s, it’s a good, it’s like what I’m trying to communicate as well with my Mandalah and the seven PS I’m like, but marketing is not just about promotion.

[00:37:29] Promotion comes way at the end. It’s like the, the, the second last of the piece first comes all this deeper work, the ship, the building of the ship. Right. And, and yeah, it’s sounds like. What you’re doing, branding is the first, let’s say six P’s of my marketing stuff, but unfortunately, or I guess it’s just human that people want to go straight to.

[00:37:57] Well, who’s my client and how do I get more clients? Right. And let’s, let’s be fair. You know, you and I both have 10 years, 10 plus years in business and yeah, we did dad detour probably as well. So, so it’s, it’s almost like, well, we’re hoping that there’s a few listeners who are at the beginning of their journey and maybe they will be willing to do the deeper work first because.

[00:38:26] Honestly, they’ll just create a much more sustainable long-term business and maybe don’t have to do the long detour we both had to do

[00:38:37] Lisa: well. Yeah. And I don’t know if I would even want to take that away from somebody because it probably is a necessary part of the Jenkins

[00:38:45] Sarah: school. It’s a good school.

[00:38:47] Lisa: And, but what I will say.

[00:38:49] It’s a cycle. It’s not something you do just once. And I think this is a big misunderstanding about branding. People think it’s like a one-time project. And no, it’s something that evolves constantly from day one of starting your business. And so my approach is not. We need to get all of these things in stone before you make a sale.

[00:39:14] Like, I really have a really kind of, I call it like doing the dirty work first approach where it’s like, no, like we’ll, we’ll take our best guests. Like if I was working with a new business owner, which I don’t really do, but this is what I would say, make your best guess sell have clients. You know, tweak your offerings until you’re really sure that they’re creating transformation.

[00:39:37] Then, then you can play with some marketing. Then you can hone your message further, hone your offerings, you know, deliver value. It’s a, it’s a ongoing cycle and you don’t want to try to do it all in one, go and think you have to be perfect with it.

[00:39:53] Sarah: Yeah, that’s a good, that’s a good point. It’s almost like.

[00:39:57] You have to go to kindergarten first, before you go through high school dudes just kind of mature and, you know, refine and define. Yeah. Very good point. Yeah. So, so yeah, we’re coming to the end of our lovely conversation here, but you just kind of give, it gave one piece of advice. What. Yeah. I had to give some like homeworks and branding homework to our listeners.

[00:40:24] What would you kind of leave them with?

[00:40:27] Lisa: Yeah. I love that you asked this question. This is what I’ve landed on. I want the, the listeners to really look at their brand promise. So the first thing is, do you have one? Do you know what the transformation that you have to offer is like, and then go to your homepage, go to your work with me page.

[00:40:53] See if a you’ve said it. Have you told them what kind of transformation you create and B ask yourself. Do you want to really mean it? Like how, how truthful, how honest, how committed am I to really creating this transformation and like assess your connection to the brand you’re building and see whether or not that brand promise.

[00:41:22] Because like I said, if you, if you don’t get that. Then you’re kind of building around an incomplete piece that is really fundamental and a cornerstone of your brand. So like spend some time with your brand promise, get excited about it. Challenge yourself to like, get more committed to creating your own lab, to figure out how you can deliver on that promise in an even bigger way, because like part of being honest in your branding, It’s not just looking at what you’re capable of now and saying, I can only build my business based on that part of being honest is you can be really aspirational and say, I want to be the best in my industry at providing this transformation.

[00:42:10] And I am dedicated and committed to becoming that person for my clients. And that’s the way I like to do it. So that’s my challenge for the listeners. Spend some time to really recommit to your promise and, you know, feel free to share on social media and tag us. I would love to hear some brand promises and have some conversations about them.

[00:42:36] So that’s. That’s my inspired bit of homework for today.

[00:42:40] Sarah: Love it. Yeah. And I will definitely, I, as you were talking, I was like, thinking about my promise and to me, I think it’s really about this revolution. And so it’s not really a service related promise, you know, I’m not saying. I’m helping you change your marketing from hypey to you to humane, which is still, I guess what I promise, but to me, it’s really this community building as well.

[00:43:08] That that is part of my brand. So, but there’s always, you know, there’s always things that can be improved. So I will definitely look at my homepage. Amazing. That’s this has been great. Thank you so much, Lisa. Two things. Where can people find you? How can they connect with you and learn more

[00:43:29] Lisa: about you?

[00:43:29] Yes. Well, first of all, thank you. Because I don’t want to, I don’t want to miss my chance to tell you how much I loved this conversation and where people can find me as realize your that’s with a, a Zed or a Z. So it’s the Canadian. American spelling and also on social media, like Facebook or Instagram, especially if you’re going to take me up on my homework, you can find me at realize your brand, so at realize your brand and you know, or at least I, Hey guys, you can kind of find me either way.

[00:43:57] And I, yeah, I would love, I would really, really love for some people to take me up on that and share their promises with us.

[00:44:04] Sarah: Wonderful. Do you have like a free, I remember in the, in the conversation there was potentially something coming, a free offer that people can download. Is that

[00:44:14] Lisa: ready yet? Or it’s not ready yet?

[00:44:17] No, let me know. And we’ll add it to the show notes. I would love that because I I’m really excited to, to create something and I I’ve, I’ve gotten, you know, what I’ve gotten in my own way with it. I’m just going to be honest, I’m overthinking it and I’m getting in my own way with.

[00:44:34] Sarah: Yeah. Sometimes we, we, we think so much about, you know, wanting to be authentic and special and, and sometimes it’s just the simplest things that people want.

[00:44:46] So I’m sure you’ll come up with it and we’ll add it to the show notes, but I want to also ask my last question that I ask all the guests, what are you grateful for today or for this week?

[00:44:59] Lisa: Gosh The like, I feel like this is obvious, but I’m very, very, very grateful for this conversation and like the quality of this conversation.

[00:45:10] You know, what I’m really grateful for is the freedom to be able to create a business where you can really be yourself. Like I am so, so grateful for the work that I do and that. It is true that you can, you can really do this, like this. Isn’t just something I can have. This is something that others can have too.

[00:45:37] And like, I couldn’t be more grateful for the fact that there’s this world of business that we can build our own little castles in the sand and enjoy loving what we do and being who we are.

[00:45:53] Sarah: Beautiful. Thank you so much, Lisa, for coming on the show, we got to definitely stay in touch. I think we’re definitely from the same family somehow.

[00:46:03] So I appreciate you coming on to this show. Thank you so much.

[00:46:07] Lisa: Thank you so much, Sarah.

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Your contact information is safe, and will not be used in ways
other than stated on this page.